Thinking Of Throwing In The 205 Towel

[Doof 11]

It's a sad day but I think it might be the end of 205 ownership for me. After finishing my engine rebuild and thoroughly enjoying the 200+bhp 205, i'm feeling a strong urge for a BMW E36 M3 Evo. I've had 205's for the last 10 years now which is amazing! I've spent countless hours under them on cold wintery evenings and I think I'm ready for a change. I was thinking the other day that fuel is going up and up and if i don't try some other great cars now, i'll end my petrol car driving life (let's face it, the days are numbered before it's all electric) having only ever owned 205's.

 

I suppose the lure of something a bit more comfortable and that gives me more confidence in it's reliability is also a factor, as is the fact that it'd be nice to be able to hear a stereo over the rattling interior sometimes.

 

The sad thing is that this comes after so much work with the engine. It pulls like a train and the BMW would probably not be a whole lot faster. Also, the poor 205 would end up broken and the shell scrapped because I wouldn't get anything like the 3k+ I could probably get in parts for it.

 

I should probably see if Dino is still around on here. I seem to remember him buying a nice Techno Violet M3.

 

Anyone know anything about these M3's? I'm tempted by this one http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3521786.htm as it'd leave me with 1-1.5k available for any work done / replacing the wheels etc. There's a spot of rust on one of the arches too which I'd probably get done.

 

Am i still drunk from New Year? Is this a good idea?

 

Cheers,

 

Lewis

[m_attt 31 1 Cars]

Ive owned one, they are great cars, very quick.

 

Just very expensive to run, only run on 99ron fuel 19-24 mpg, dont even try lesser fuel as they splutter an miss and dont like it. Parts are not cheap like normal bm's as most parts a M specific especially on the evo. tyres last next to no time and decent tyres are a must. But generally reliable.

[Anthony 1,003]

I should probably see if Dino is still around on here. I seem to remember him buying a nice Techno Violet M3.

Dino has had a few M3's but has since sold them and now has a E46 330i if I recall.

 

The big problem with something like an M3 is that you can have eye-watering repair bills if something major goes bang (engine went pop on ones of Dino's for example, effectively writing off the car) and to keep them in fine fettle can cost too - something which unfortunately many E36 (and now E46 as the values of those fall) owners aren't doing as the cars fall into the hands of people that can't really afford to run them.

 

As I think it was Alan_M on here that said - "M is for money"

 

Lovely cars though and I do periodically get tempted by something like that as it's mind-boggling what you can get for a few grand these days, but the potential repair and maintenance bills scare the hell out of me having become used to 205 and 306's that I fix myself and cost buttons.

[tartanbloke 35 1 Cars]

Afternoon,

 

Yes, all comments agreed and its the general cost of ownership that will be very different to the 205. Howver, if you really want one, get it before it is too late, you are too old or other things get in the way that take priority.

 

Also, as Athony says, beware of the ones that have had aspirational owners who do not have the necessary funds to run a car properly.

 

Chris

[GLPoomobile 958]

I went through a phase a couple of months ago of seriously thinking about getting rid of my Alfa for an E36 M3. I'm no expert but I think they are around that point now where they've hit the bottom of the depreciation ladder and will possibly start to go back up again.

 

But like Anthony says, if you can't afford the upkeep then it's not a sensible proposition. That's certainly true for me - I can't even justify the cost of running my Alfa (similar mpg to the M3 too) and I'll be getting rid of that to replace it with a diesel soon. So it would be crazy for me to jump in to bed with an M3 Shame really as I do love certain aspects of them (even if they aren't the best of the M3s), but car ownership is just becoming crazy expensive these days.

 

If you've got the money though, then it's certainly worth giving it a try now than regret it later. As is always the case with any high maintenance car, it's obviously worth spending the extra to get a well maintained example rather than something a bit rough around the edges.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

You mean it's finally finished?

 

Is there no way you could keep it & run it as an occasional / weekend car?

 

As said, great cars but expensive to run, especially as a daily drive if you do the average 10k+ annual milage.

 

There are many cars I'd consider swapping to but for the real world performance I'd gain sat in slow moving traffic to & from work etc I'll stick with my 306 hdi for the time being.

 

It's amazing to see how many people still believe that ~56mph is the most econonomical speed for their cars, my diesel is often one of the fastest cars along the dual carriage ways & motorways around here, nevermind the back roads when I get a clear road.

 

One bonus of working unsociable hours, clear roads.

 

g

[Doof 11]

The BMW would become my weekend car. I don't need a car for work so it's purely a toy and thus I can't really justify 2 cars.

 

It's going to be a big jump in cost I'm sure. The 205 barely costs me anything now that the engine is done but I just can't relax driving it. I'm always thinking it's going to fall to bits!

[welshpug 1,657]

and driving the BMW you'll be driving along thinking feck... feck... what expensive lump is going to fail first....

 

 

if you've put your 205 together properly it WILL be reliable, there's hardly anything that could fall to bits, stick a standard airbox and exhaust on and bingo, you'll hear the stereo

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

The 205 barely costs me anything now that the engine is done but I just can't relax driving it. I'm always thinking it's going to fall to bits!

Why? You've rebuilt it so surely you should know it'll be fine & have faith in your own work standard!!

 

even though its now an old car, you've replaced many of the routine parts that fail with new so it ought to be fine for years if you keep on top of it.

 

I'm with Mei on this, if you've done the work to a high standard then why will it fail?

 

My black 205 was the first management swap & engine build I'd ever done & it never let me down.

 

The only fault was when a valve cracked coming home from the ring in 2010, although even then it didn't stop running, passed an mot with it & survived a trackday at cadwell!!

 

g

[Doof 11]

Why did i post here. Stop it!

[Doof 11]

Balls, now I'm looking at 306 GTi-6's thinking, if i want a little more refinement, stick the engine in that...

[welshpug 1,657]

which engine? your sig says 1.6 gti

[Anthony 1,003]

Surely the complaints about lack of refinement are atleast in part as a result of how you've modified it?

 

Group N mounts and a rattle free dash don't go together for example, and nor do a (I assume) loud exhaust and hearing the stereo.

 

Too many people modify a 205 to improve one area, not thinking about the (often dramatic) effects that will have on other areas. It will never be a luxobarge, but a fully-trimmed 205 can be perfectly refined and a pleasant place to cover significant mileage.

 

I'd personally argue that putting the engine in a 306 is the worst option - to keep the refinement you need to keep the weight, and if you keep the weight, I personally find them nowhere near as involving or fun as a 205 (which after all is the primary reason for most of us owning a 205) even though they are ultimately more capable than a 205 in absolute terms.

[Doof 11]

Shows how long it is since I've been on here I suppose! The 1.6 went in the bin and now there's a sweet 2.1 living in there. Maybe it's time to get a few posts up about the engine using oil / water and the brakes not feeling too good...and the idle being annoying...and the rear suspension rubbing on the arches when I've got too much stuff in the boot...

 

Is it time the axle stands came out again?

[welshpug 1,657]

sounds like it needs a proper map and a beam rebuild and a brake fluid refresh.

 

had mine pretty close to the stops with no rubbing, I do run the proper size mind

[Batfink 201]

Why dont you pay someone like Anthony to have a good look over the car, fix any problems, improve niggles and set it up to be a bit more refined!

(If Anthony would do something like this )

[Doof 11]

Thing is, it was mapped by Sandy but we didn't have time to set it up with an idle valve or anything so it struggles when cold and is a little high when hot. I might give him a ring and see about going for bike ITB's as he thinks that would fix the idle...

 

The beam was rebuilt only a few years ago so I wouldn't have thought it'd need doing. It's a 309 beam which is probably slightly wider but oddly it only rubs on the left side. I wasn't sure if raising it a little would sort it. Part of me thinks that because it rubs on one side, the beam could be misaligned or something. I can't remember exactly how the beams fit on the back but I seem to remember there being an amount of play with them?

[Anthony 1,003]

309 beams will rub the inside lip of the plastic arches to a degree, but it's far worse if the bump stops are missing on one or both sides or you're running wider than standard wheels/tyres. Raising the beam helps of course, as the suspension has to compress further before any contact can occur.

 

There is a degree of movement/slack in the mounting holes, but it's also quite likely that good old French tolerances are an issue - particularly if it's ever had a bump and a rear quarter repaired during its life. On most cars, the tyre quickly removes the offending plastic from the arch and rubbing is no longer an issue.

 

Idle shouldn't be too difficult to sort out I wouldn't have thought with some further tweeking and/or an ICV fitting... or using it as an excuse to go down the throttle body route and enter a world of glorious induction hammer

[Doof 11]

I did leave the bumpstops off I think so they should probably go on. Does that not mean it'll just spend most of it's life riding on the stops which can't be good?! Looks like the beam probably needs raising / stiffer torsion bars? In the mean time I can probably cut a little more plastic away to stop any rubbing.

 

I bet if I adjusted the engine mounts so that the top mount wasn't hard against the rubber stop at the back it'd make a world of difference to cabin noise. I'm not sure where I'd get the adjustment though, perhaps the gearbox side has a little movement forwards and backwards to rotate the other side.

[MiniGibbo 142]

E36's are awesome.

[welshpug 1,657]

I did leave the bumpstops off I think so they should probably go on. Does that not mean it'll just spend most of it's life riding on the stops which can't be good?!

 

 

only if you like a rudeboy ride height.

[Doof 11]

Certainly don't like the "slammed" look. I just bought a beam from someone off here which was apparently rebuilt and lowered 25mm. Sounds like bumpstops and raising the suspension by a spline are in order.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Group N mounts and a rattle free dash don't go together for example

They do if you have all dash screws & fittings tight & secure once they've bedded in imo but with the mount resting against the buffer it definately won't help.

 

Does it really need an icv or would a tweak to the map suffice?

 

I've removed the sad on mine & it still idles fine when cold, only in the depth of winter does it struggle for a few minutes but I don't let it sit idling, just start up & drive off.

 

Have you no way to adjust the idle speed down when its warmed through?

 

I'd be willing to have a go over it sometime to see if it can easily be made much more refined.

 

Just look at Daz_C's car for a true stripped out caged track car that is fine to drive everyday!!

 

g

[2-Pugs 57]

Do it. Do you research, make sure you can afford it, go into it with your eyes open then do it. You won't regret it. While 205's are fab cars, along with everyone on here I do love them - but there are other fab cars out there too to keep your mind open to. I'd say an E36 M3 is one of those cars. Buy carefully and in a year you can sell without loosing much, if any money on it. As you said, they have reached the bottom of the depreciation curve now anyway. Yes, you do need to be aware of the running costs - for instance on an E39 M5 an oil change, even if you do it yourself will set you back over £100, a set of discs and pads is getting on for £1000, and it's similiar for a set of tyres - but like I say, go into it with your eyes open and don't be tempted to buy a cheapo one that needs these things doing.

 

Unfortunately, or fortunately, our beloved 205 is really cheap to run - so almost anything else is expensive in comparison.

 

Once you've have scratched that itch you can continue life knowing you once owned such a car. Lets face it, cars like that probably won't be produced for that much longer, so enjoy them while you can.

 

I don't know much about E36 M3s specifically but I would steer clear of any modified or chavved up tat - and tbh that wheels on that one in the link marked it out as the latter straight away for me. Spend a bit more on a decent, enthusisast owned one - it'll be worth it in the long run.

[harryskid 193]

Dont do the Bmw, my brother has two 7 series and hes always paying out. I advised him to get rid but being a pratt he won't listen.