Sad Desperation

[morganb 0]

Hi all,

 

Im pretty sure ive got a dodgy SAD. My 1.6 gti will stall when cold and idle very low, if at all. when its fully warmed up it idles very well, settles at 1000rpm.

Ive done a good few searches on here, so as a result ive cleaned everything, swapped afm's, checked for air leaks and ive still got the same problem. Yesterday i whipped the SAD off, it was all gunked up so i cleaned it up and and slackened off the small nut on the back of the SAD to increase the opening inside the unit.

After refitting, the car started well, idled at 1500 from cold and dropped and settled at 1000 when warmed up.(for the first time in years!). I was happy but it was a very short lived success. Today the car is being a pig again. Stalling from cold and behaving just as it did before.

..........is there anything else i can do to get this damn thing working?. ive seen the odd one going on ebay now and then but i guess they will be pretty worn by now aswell. I cant justify buying a new one at the minute with xmas around the corner and ive had a titful of holding the revs in traffic, junctions etc when the car is cold

Thanks

[maturin23 10]

Given there's loads of issues that could cause the cold-start problems I reckon you should list in detail everything you'd tried so far - this will give people who know far more than me a chance to narrow things down a bit.

 

Have you changed the temp sensor? You've not mentioned it.

[Anthony 1,003]

Despite it constantly getting blamed, in my experience the SAD is rarely the cause of cold start issues.

 

These engines are very sensitive to setup when the ambient temperature is cold like it is at the moment, and it only takes things to be slightly amiss for it to barely (if at all) idle. Once warmed up, or when the ambient temperature is a little warmer, it's not an issue and they're easy to get running.

 

In particular, they are very sensitive to idle mixture (typically leaner is better), base ignition advance, and to the relationship between the throttle body and idle air screws - and that's assuming of course that there's nothing wrong such as air leaks, gummed up pipes, throttle body etc. It's a bit of a fiddle, but it can be done to make them start and idle on the button whatever the temperature.

 

Yesterday during the day was much warmer than it was today, here at least, which might be why it idled yesterday but now doesn't.

 

Whip the SAD off - if it's open around about 1/8 turn when cold, chances are that your cold running issues lie elsewhere.

[morganb 0]

Thanks for the replies guys, i really appreciate it

Heres a pic of the SAD as it was when removed :

 

and heres a pic after i slackened the nut on the back of the unit:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll63/mjrbrookes/SAD.jpg

 

Ive had the car 6 years and never replaced the ecu temp sensor, should have really but i'l get a new one this week, and for how inexpensive they are its worth doing whatever happens

 

Im pretty inexperienced with cars and anything i do is with the reference of a haynes manuel or this forum.I'll spend some time searching here tonight and educating myself and im gonna sort this out i swear lol.

 

I'l report back with my results

 

thanks again

morgan

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I agree with Anthony, its actually pretty rare for the SAD to fail & cause cold start or running issues imo but I have experienced the SAD function being effected by a worn AFM when it either doesn't close as the car warms so the idle stays high for no reason.

 

If you do choose to replace the temp sensor, buy a bosch one for the extra cost because recently I know of at least two people whose cars had a spurious new one fitted which made things worse.

 

The ecu sensor can be tested, google for Bosch NTC sensor testing & you shuld get the bosch page on these & with the test figures to look for.

 

If not reply to here & I'll find it as I posted it on PSCuk forum last week.

 

g

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Although I agree, I have once had benefit from cleaning the SAD, then lubing before re-fitting so while it is off it may be worth a clean. It was clearly filthy on removal though so may not be applicable in all cases.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

I had the same sort of problems this is how i fixed it, First i replaced the fault vacum unit on the dizzy, next i set up the ignition timing, reset the base idle speed, reset the throttle postion switch and finaly reset the idle Co. runs very well now.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

For anyone that wants or needs it for reference, the Bosch NTC sensor document is here

 

g

[morganb 0]

Thanks for the replies guys.Thought id update. Finally got this sorted !.

I replaced the ECU temp first but that didnt make any noticable difference so i proceeded to clean SAD up again, clean up the throttle body and brass idle screw untill it was spotless. Also swapped over the AFM for one i had spare as the old one had been tampered with by a mechanic i used use 4 or 5 years ago. Anyway now it idles pretty well i think, 1000rpm from cold and doesnt budge. When warm its fluctuates between 950-1100rpm with all electrics on(heaters on full, drive lights,etc). And doesnt stall . Big thanks to the guys on this forum!.......Now gotta sort the problem of the car sticking at 4000rpm, just bought a second hand bosch ign amp from ebay to try but turned out to be duff.....ggrrrr! lol. Any ideas?

[grahamlaw 0]

I'll be going to peugeot for my amp at the weekend. The last couple of parts I went there for were no longer available so I'll probably phone first. I'll post a price tomorrow night for you.

[grahamlaw 0]

I've been told today Peugeot no longer sell ignition amps but you might find the odd dealer that still have stock. 81 pounds plus vat if they still have them. I'm picking one up on Saturday from a small parts shop for 30 quid. I very much doubt it's a bosch unit at that price but I'm getting desperate.

[morganb 0]

I think GSF stock them but after doing a search on the forum it seems some here have had problems with them and they can be very hit and miss

[grahamlaw 0]

Just got a new one made by Cambiare. Will be fitting it in the next couple of hours so watch this space. Cost 33.60.

[grahamlaw 0]

Got a good healthy spark on all cylinders, got fuel, still won't start.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Are your HT leads in the right order & can you hear the injectors cracking when you crank it over?

 

g

[grahamlaw 0]

It had new HT leads about six months ago and was running fine up to December so they must be in the right order. Injectors are cracking fine. Keeps flooding. I'm stumped. I've never had this much trouble with a car.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Are the injectors actually squirting fuel into the cylinder when you say "got fuel" or have you just got fuel to the fuel rail? Sparks and petrol tend to be a pretty friendly combination if they meet at the right place!

[grahamlaw 0]

Well when I tested the spark plugs I put them in the end of the HT lead and petrol sprayed out the hole. My dad's going to look at the car today. Hope he finds something.

[grahamlaw 0]

Dad's had a look but no joy. I checked the relay on the bulk head and relays in the fuse box. All of them looks good, no scorch marks. All pins are clean and all fuses are good. If there's anyone local that could have a look for me I'd be grateful. I've seen a few 205's about so surely someone is local?

[kyepan 291]

does it run with the old ignition amp?

[grahamlaw 0]

No, doesn't run at all. I've tried with new paste and without paste. Makes no difference, still doesn't fire.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Have you tried an different tachymetric relay? (under the dash by the ecu)

 

Are the SAD & Coolant temp sensor plugs on the correct places because if someone has taken any of these off they are easily cross connected & this causes running problems.

 

The SAD should have a black two pin plug the CTS a blue two pin.

 

g

[grahamlaw 0]

I've never seen that relay before, where could I lay my hands on one? If it's dead should I see burnt pins? Does anyone have a part number?

 

 

The plugs are in the right places as I did test the resistance of the sensor which was fine. I'm pretty sure I've never unplugged the SAD.

 

Really sorry morganb, totally hijacked your thread.

[grahamlaw 0]

Back again. Did a compression test today and I'm not sure of the results. Being a non runner I couldn't get the temperature up. Cylinders 2 and 4 get 9.5 bar. Cylinder 1 gets 10.5 and cylinder 3 gets 11.2.

 

We also managed to bump start it but as soon as I put the clutch in it died.

 

Any ideas?