Mi Dyno Plot

[craig_007 1]

After months of trying get my 1.9mi running correctly it's now running superb.( All be it with different bodies and management)

 

It's took a bit of time and money to get there but I got there in the end.

 

Have to say I'm more than happy and the guys were more than helpful and took a real interest in mapping the car so I can't recommend them enough.

 

Anyway here is the graph for the car.

 

Edited November 14, 2011 by craig_007

[welshpug 1,666]

standard engine?

 

whats the exhaust and inlet on there?

[craig_007 1]

Bottom end is standard but was given a rebuild by myself.

 

The inlet is a petert S2 and exhaust is a piper BP270 regrind as it was already in the head when I bought it (Unknown to myself the car had piper inlet and exhaust cams)

 

The head has has a slight skim at some point

[petert 601]

Yes, well done indeed. Flywheel numbers are always rubbery but 163hp at the wheels is very impressive indeed. The last 1000rpm is very flat too!

[craig_007 1]

Hi Pete,

 

Yep I'm happy with it now, Thanks again for all your help previously on this and your map that you sent me was the one I put into the Emerald ecu before I went for mapping and the guy said it was near spot on for my car too just a little tweaking.

 

The last 1000rpm being flat, Is that a good thing ?

 

Yeah I was aware of tolerances with flywheel figures but the at the wheels figure I'm more than happy with as with the torque.

[welshpug 1,666]

Very nice, does it run a 4 branch?

 

Dan (DCC) got pretty close to those figures with a standard gti6 last week

[craig_007 1]

It does run a 4 branch and 2.25 system.

 

That must be some engine he has to get that, This has cost me a small fortune to this point.

[kyepan 291]

Well done! worth the hard work though i bet.

[Anthony 1,003]

Looks like a good result, and if you're happy with the way that it drives and performs, you can't really argue with that

 

Is SOS Motorsport anything to do with Sounds of Silence that used to post on here and had a fairly high spec 205 Turbo from memory? I remember that he was up from around that sort of area and would make sense.

 

Dan (DCC) got pretty close to those figures with a standard gti6 last week

Can't really compare figures from one rolling road with another - far too many variables.

[welshpug 1,666]

Indeed not Anthony, they aren't calibrated either but gives an indication of how strong the 6 is on bodies

 

I recognised that reg number from somewhere, SOS is sounds of silence

[craig_007 1]

Yep the car drives really well so I'm more than happy with it and it was worth the work.

 

Looking forward to getting some spare time and a dry(ish) day to get out for a decent blast in it.

 

As WP says, They are sounds of silence that had the big powered 205 very knowledgeable with the MI aswell which is really hard to find up here.

 

Just goe's to show how hard it is to break the "200"bhp bracket without major engine work but as I say, I'm more than happy with the 163ATW figure, I wasn't quite expecting it to make that but after the guys had a little play with cam timing and smoothed the graph out the power seem to appear from there, I must have been a little out on the cam timing.

[Baz 421]

Not a bad result at all, nice to finally see some results of Peter's cams because AFAIK there never really has been over here.

 

Sorry to possibly go over what's been discussed before, but what sort of compression is it making Craig? Has it been rebuilt? I'm interested with regards to Peter's St2 cam, i don't think we've ever had proper results over here utilising them!

 

 

I recognised that reg number from somewhere...

 

F323OKV is a bit of a legend, one of those number plates that seems to be remembered well, to me especially not just because of my wierd number plate memory, but because it's basically a works plate, OKV's were commonly on Factory registered cars. It's been around for years all over the country, from memory, GLP's owned it years ago? If my memory serves someone like Sam1312 had it for a while before Kate Loader had it a few years back, and pretty sure it's popped up here & there at other times too!

Edited November 15, 2011 by Baz

[craig_007 1]

I'm unsure of the actuall compression of the engine but static compression is approx 215psi across the 4 cylinders if that means anything, I knew after the rebuild that it was a healthy enough figure to work from.

 

The bottom end was given a complete rebuild after something gave way at knockhill (No4 piston had severe heat damage) I never touched the top end apart from fitting petes cam.

 

Indeed f323okv has been about, It's had 15/16 owners and a mate of mine used to own approx 10/12 years ago.

[dcc 855]

i was most impressed with the noise! i bet you love yours too! so much grunt on tap and from what i remember sandy got a reading of 160ish at 5k jolly expensive as the noise is addictive

[Sandy 191]

Wheels figures are every bit as variable as flywheel figures, they can be manipulated in so many ways and different rollers/software will translate the roller speed and load cell reading in different ways, don't ever assume wheels figures are pure in any way; they aren't, they are calculated too! I'm going off quoting any figures to customers from the rollers now, I know it's what people want to hear, but when you know the flaws in the system; you wonder what the point is. If it's well set up and mapped to drive well and keep driving well (with all peripheral issues optimised too), then that's what's important.

 

The plot shown of this engine (flywheel), isn't far off what we saw with Jrod's similar MI16 on the engine dyno. That's probably the best comparison you're ever likely to get.

[Chris_Mi 6]

+1 for how it drives, and not for the "headline figures". I've seen some pretty amazing power figures on other cars, and when you hear about them, they are just not tractable. I think its a subjective thing, but I see you're please with how it drives and that's really all that matters.

 

The plot shown of this engine (flywheel), isn't far off what we saw with Jrod's similar MI16 on the engine dyno. That's probably the best comparison you're ever likely to get.

 

And you'll hopefully being seeing another plot from that very same engine in the near future!

[craig_007 1]

Yep very true about figures etc which I do take with a pinch of salt, As stated its all about how it drives, from low revs any gear it will pick up and accelerate perfectly with no flat spots to be felt, the pick up from 4k to the limiter is superb.

 

All in all it is definately a quick little car that will surprise a few. Looking forward to getting back on track with the added power and suspension upgrades.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Indeed f323okv has been about, It's had 15/16 owners and a mate of mine used to own approx 10/12 years ago.

 

I may well just be reposting what I've told you before, but yes, F323 is the slutty old GTI that popped my 205 cherry

 

It had only had a few owners when I picked it up for £995 in Torquay back around 2000, from a private trader. Think it was a woman owner before that, and it was bog standard. I was going to Mi it but then moved up to Edinburgh. It had a few problems and I decided I needed something cheaper so bought a Civic, stripped as much from it as I was capable of at the time with very limited tools and skills, and sold the "shell" for £50 (it was actually more like a 90% complete car and needed very little to get it back to completion). Local 205 enthusiast took it away and built it back up, and I saw him cutting about Edinburgh a few times afterwards, and it looked quite nicely turned out. That would have been around 2002. After that I lost track of it, except for a few years later when I saw a random photo on here of it on a rolling road after the Mi conversion.

 

Randomly saw it at a Castle Combe action day in 2007, when it was owned by Kate (mentioned dabove by Baz). She was based around Swindon IIRC, and had bought it from somewhere up in this neck of the woods. Looked pretty tatty then though. How's the rust now?

 

Quite funny that it's ended up back in Scotland after so many owners, and starting life in the far opposite end of the UK

[craig_007 1]

The car is not to bad and have certainly seen worse. A decent enough shell though.

 

The front panel is needing replaced along with some of the inner wings, offside and nearside sills will need to be done aswell, Apart from that it's not too bad at all.

 

There should be a few pictures on this site of it just recently when I thought about getting shot of it. A few people have commented on how clean it looks.

[petert 601]

..............nice to finally see some results of Peter's cams because AFAIK there never really has been over here.

 

I thought they'd been quite a few with excellent results eg Doof, DrSarty, James_m?

[Baz 421]

I thought they'd been quite a few with excellent results eg Doof, DrSarty, James_m?

 

Apologies Peter, i should've said that i mean from relatively standard engines, giving easily repeatable or rough average of what the cam alone is capable of achieving. Most of the results such as the ones you offer are from fairly heavily modified engines and yes whilst give good results prove or show nothing about individual components such as the cam, other than that they simply 'work'.

 

AFAIK James never actually tested his, he certainly didn't mention it the other evening when we were chatting about it.

 

I guess, in an ideal world i'd like to see a few back to back's, before and aft cam-fitting in D6C's so we get an average & can say something along the lines of ''a St1 cam can give between X and Y gain''.

 

I guess you have plenty of results from over the pond with DFW's with either less, or decked with much more compression than our D6C's? & Does that actually really make a big a difference as i'm thinking?!

 

Hope that all makes sense & cheers!

Edited November 16, 2011 by Baz

[petert 601]

This result attached on a standard DFW gives the best indication of before/after with the St 1 grind. It's obviously better with a D6C, although I can't recall hearing of any results on otherwise standard engines. A decked D6C (10.8:1) and St1 cam gives around 95-96kW ATW. There's been plenty of modded D6C's (or equivalents) over here however, of similar spec to the one here. ie TB's and ST2 inlet. I'd say Craig's is at the high limit of the expected tolerance. ie 115kW at the wheels +/- 7kW would be the variation, as per what Sandy said. If someone said they were only getting 100kW ATW you'd ask questions, the same with 125kW ATW.

[gaz832 7 1 Cars]

dave at sos sold the 205 not long ago, the new owner still races it at knockhill, its running crazy power now, last time i seen it it was running 430bhp .

[sounds of silence 2]

Good to see your happy craig it did seem to make good power after a bit of time being spent on it and deffo made a big diff with playing with the cam timing

 

as sandy says all figures from rolling roads can really be taking with a pinch of salt but we do keep ours well calibrated and well serviced

also as mentioned its really how the car drives and performs on the road/track that counts , iv seem on many occasions people claiming big power and when seen in action doesnt live up to the claims and drive like complete dogs.

 

Gaz - the 205s actually @ 450bhp and still more mapping to do to it so still more power to come from it then the new gearbox will hopefully be in for next year which will really transform the car once again :-)

 

Dave

[petert 601]

If you really wanted to be a nice person, you'd take the cam cover off and measure the lift @TDC for both cams and publish it here! It's a good idea to do it, even if you don't want to share. You've paid for the knowledge and if the engine blew up tomorrow, you'd have to do it all again.

Edited November 22, 2011 by petert