Another Badly Set-Up Gti

[Taylor_kid 1 1 Cars]

Hi guys,

 

Basically I bought a 1988 1.9, bog standard as far as I can tell. My mechanical skills are poor at best, but I'm keen to try what people suggest as long as you tell me how to put it back together again.

 

When I picked it up it seemed to be running very rich and by the sound of it, only on 3 cylinders. When you put your foot down it doesn't pull properly after about 2000rpm and just smokes black.

The spark plugs are properly fouled black carbon, on every one.

Oil pressure (when the dial works) seems to be ok, looses a little pressure when you take your foot off. Doesn't seem to use too much oil.

On Idle the car will practically leave a black mark on the ground behind the exhaust of un-burnt fuel & soot

 

I stupidly thought that this would probably be an easy fix, spark plugs/distributor was my initial thought...

 

So far I have:

 

Replaced the spark plugs

Cleaned the Distributor & rotor (seemed to be in good condition)

Replaced the Ignition Amplifier

Cleaned the brass throttle screw

 

I have bought a second hand AFM as on every thread I have read regarding poor running this seems to be the issue - waiting on delivery

 

I have removed the Throttle Position Switch/Sensor and tested it - taking a multi-meter to it and testing it seems to either give me an ON or OFF, no variation... is this right or is it goofed? My massively small knowledge of TPS would lead me to believe it should have a range of values such as the Air flow meter has?

 

I took her into what can only be described as the worst garage in the world who charged me £80 to put an emission sensor up her pipe and tell me to replace the Ignition Amp & AFM.

 

At the minute I'm running out of idea's. If the Air Flow Meter doesn't help the only other thing I can think of is a pipe leaking un- monitored air into the system.

 

Basically the little girl seems to be drinking far to much fuel and can't get her mixtures right, resulting in a poor performance all round,

 

If anyone has had a similar problem or has any idea's on what could be happening please before I loose my patients and take her in for another £80 dose of "try replacing that"!

 

Thanks in advance!

[brian j 32]

A search for "coolant temperature sensor" may help you...

 

I think there must be more threads on this than most other subjects.

 

Normally rich running is the AFM or CTS.

 

Not too expensive, even at Peugeot dealers.

[welshpug 1,657]

best fiver you can spend would be on a Haynes workshop manual, or even have a search for a member on here called m@tt as he has a PDF in his signature.

 

there's a good few bits on setting up the injection and ignition system in there and how to test components.

[davey sprocket 14]

 

I have removed the Throttle Position Switch/Sensor and tested it - taking a multi-meter to it and testing it seems to either give me an ON or OFF, no variation... is this right or is it goofed? My massively small knowledge of TPS would lead me to believe it should have a range of values such as the Air flow meter has?

 

 

 

Sadly that's the correct operation for the TPS on this antiquated fuel injection system. It should be set to cut the fuel when the throttle is closed but it should also click again at the other end of its travel, ie wide open throttle, to richen the mixture up a bit. Doesn't do anything in between and I don't think it will be causing your problem.

 

Have you cleaned out all of the breather lines? And checked for air leaks?

When I got mine there were several leaks in the induction system on the engine side of the AFM... as I fixed them the engine ran richer and richer.... obviously the previous owner's garage had gradually richened the mixture to account for the air leaks, rather than find and fix them.

 

It really could well be the AFM, they are mostly pretty well shot by now but I would also check the wiring connections to it.

 

Edited to add:

And what Welshpug said!!

Edited October 27, 2011 by davey sprocket

[deathbringer929 49 1 Cars]

hi, i've ordered a coolant temp sensor from my peugeot dealer today £17.00 odd + vat. available in two days was advised so not too expensive to rule out.

[davey sprocket 14]

hi, i've ordered a coolant temp sensor from my peugeot dealer today £17.00 odd + vat. available in two days was advised so not too expensive to rule out.

 

 

Yep, no bad thing to do so. I did mine some time ago too.

 

It has to be said though, in my experience you can disconnect it and while the car will run rather rich, it won't result in clouds of thick black smoke like the OP describes.

 

 

 

I'm a bit worried that the AFM meter he gets might be just as bad as the one he already has. I'd be trying to find someone local willing to swap their known good AFM over... it's a five minute job.

[Taylor_kid 1 1 Cars]

OK Quick update,

 

AFM and CTS arrived and fitted, no notable difference.

 

Whilst replacing the Coolant temperature sensor I had a look at the two sensors further back, (both connected with spade connectors) these 2 sensors were fed from the same loom with 3 wires coming from it, one to each sensor... however one yellow wire was just hanging loose?

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/imag0272q.jpg

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/imag0271e.jpg

 

Any clues, my bet is that its meant to be plugged into the more gold looking plug?

 

Will go through my Haynes manual tomorrow and try to set the injection and ignition systems properly then report back.

 

Thanks for the help so far.

[davey sprocket 14]

OK Quick update,

 

AFM and CTS arrived and fitted, no notable difference.

 

Whilst replacing the Coolant temperature sensor I had a look at the two sensors further back, (both connected with spade connectors) these 2 sensors were fed from the same loom with 3 wires coming from it, one to each sensor... however one yellow wire was just hanging loose?

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/imag0272q.jpg

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/imag0271e.jpg

 

Any clues, my bet is that its meant to be plugged into the more gold looking plug?

 

Will go through my Haynes manual tomorrow and try to set the injection and ignition systems properly then report back.

 

Thanks for the help so far.

 

Well, the two sensors are the coolant temp gauge and coolant temp warning light, look fine to me although those aren't the OE connectors.

The third wire I think supposed to go right down the back of the block to the oil pressure gauge sensor, well it does on mine anyway... you said you had a reading on that in your original post didn't you?

 

None of those feed into the injection system so I don't think they'll be causing your problem.

 

If the AFM has made no difference then I'd say you've got a wiring fault or one or more injectors are stuck or something along those lines. Have you tried adjusting the ignition timing?

 

Compression test might be an idea at some stage too... head gasket failure??

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Stupid question, but are you sure you have a 1.9 AFM as the 1.6 one looks similar but is wired differently

[davey sprocket 14]

Stupid question, but are you sure you have a 1.9 AFM as the 1.6 one looks similar but is wired differently

 

1.9 AFM should be marked 0280202109

 

Linky here

[Taylor_kid 1 1 Cars]

Sorry should have mentioned to begin with, I Compression tested the engine when I picked it up, all the readings seemed to be fine and within tolerances. If needs be I can do it again and post the actual results up here.

 

Just checked, the numbers on the AFM

 

Both the AFM were 0280202109 - so presumably the correct ones for the car.

 

Off out to try and set everything up as close to correctly as I can.

 

Will report back soon.

[davey sprocket 14]

Good good, stick at it!

 

I realised earlier I said that loose yellow wire should lead to the oil pressure gauge sensor down at the bottom of the back of the engine.... but of course that sensor's at the front of the engine.

I think that loose yellow wire really should go to that sensor at the back of the bottom of the engine but it's actually the oil temp gauge one.... I bet that's not registering anything is it?

[Taylor_kid 1 1 Cars]

OK, had a quick mess with the car this afternoon, not long enough to be properly productive,

 

set the idle at about 950, where it stayed, bouncing between about 900 & 1050. still had black smoke coming out the back, blipped the throttle and the car dropped to around 500 then bounced back up to 2000 where it stayed until I turned the ignition off.

 

Lets go back to basics. - if one cylinder isn't firing would it give the result of over-fuelling whilst at the same time being under-powered?

 

When I compression tested everything I sat the spark plugs on the engine and checked they were all sparking - they were, however I couldn't tell you if they were strong or not. Would it be advisable to start replacing parts on the ignition side?

 

also, on the ignition coil? is there meant to be something plugged into all 4 spade terminals or am I just getting paranoid about every electrical connection I can see?

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/804/imag0273e.jpg

 

Davey, Yep, no oil temperature, will try and get that connected next time I wriggle under the car.

 

Thanks a lot for your help so far.

[P_Monty 2]

Mines an '89 so it may be a little different, but, on one side of the could I've got a red wire on each spade, and on the other side there's 2 wires on each spade, one yellow / green pair and one grey/green pair..

[davey sprocket 14]

OK, probably running out of things we can suggest without seeing the car or hearing it run.

 

Some suggestions:

 

Air filter clogged up? Dead animal stuck in the air filter inlet pipe? Try disconnecting the inlet pip to the AFM (filter side, not engine side obviously) to eliminate these.

 

Plug leads on the wrong plugs?

You say you checked the dizzy cap and rotor, how did you check them? I'd replace them if you haven't already. Try altering the ingition timing, see if that makes any difference (make a mark on the dizzy and the housing to make sure you can get it back to where it is now if it doesn't help)

 

I'd take the throttle body off completely and clean it thoroughly, there's a couple of small airways that can get blocked. Then you'll need to completely start again with the throttle stop and idle settings as per Welshpug's suggestion.

 

If it was just one cylinder not firing, you wouldn't have all 4 plugs black and sooty. I do wonder if the fuel pressure regulator has failed or the injectors are gummed up or something like that. What colour are the injectors, maybe someone's put the wrong ones in?

 

I'd be more tempted to suspect a wiring fault though, try wiggling the loom about with the car idling, just keep your fingers out of harm's way.

 

Keep at it, you'll get there eventually!

[eck_johnston 2]

Have you made sure that the distributor timing isn't advanced or retarded?

I somehow managed to get mine set up massively wrong, and it was generally coughing black smoke and fumes, not revving, blackening spark plugs and so on.

Also make sure the wee vacuum advance thingy on the distributor is working and connected as it should be.

 

eck

[Taylor_kid 1 1 Cars]

Hi all, so it has been a whole winter since the car was touched, I bit the bullet the other day and took the car to a local garage who deal with 205's.

 

After paying about twice what the car is worth, it left the garage running! apparently a faulty ECU.

 

Anyway, I drove it home aproximately 25 miles, taking it easy as I didnt want to blow the thing up straight away. everything seemed to be fine.

Next I took it out for a quick trip to the shops - about 8 mile round trip, on the way there everything seemed perfect, pulled well handled like all the stories that I had read over a long winter.

 

However... on the way back, the STOP light started coming on, and the coolant temp started rising pretty quickly.

 

I coasted her home and when I stopped there was steam comming out the drivers side of the engine bay, tried to have a look where it was coming from but couldnt be certain as it was dark.

 

anyway, next day when the engine was cool I opened up the coolant to see how much was left.... none...

 

So proceeded to pour roughly 4-5litres of water into the coolant system, turned the car over to see if I could tell where the coolant was leaking from, still no sign of it, and with the car heating up again I decided to turn it off to prevent any (more) damage.

 

Looking at the car today it looks as if all the coolant has again come out roughly where the water pump is.

 

The question is, if the car is not running and is cool, hence has little pressure in the coolant system would it be likely that the water pump would leak? or would it be more likely that a hose has burst.

 

I've ordered up the 3 hoses that are in the suspect area. so will try and fit them over the weekend.

 

So be warned, if the hoses don't fix the problem expect this topic to have many more posts from me!

[welshpug 1,657]

how old is the water pump?

[Phil H 16]

...or the water pump is leaking. Good luck with it, you'll get there.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

probably the classic metal water pipe rusted through syndrome again mines just gone too started as a damp patch, proceeded to prod it with a stick now got a big fo hole in it lol

Edited May 23, 2012 by Slo

[Taylor_kid 1 1 Cars]

Thanks for the fast responses!

 

No idea how old the water pump is... any way of telling?

 

When I fit the new hoses I will have a poke at the metal water pipe and see what condition its in. See if its worth replacing to prevent a future problem.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I'd change the water pipe anyway as they rust from the inside out and are not too expensive anyway.

[welshpug 1,657]

if you dont know, budget to replace it asap.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

id renew the cambelt and tensioners while the pumps off as well as youll have to remove it anyway to get to it

[Atreides 2]

I had almost exactly the same symptoms as you when I bought my most recent 205 last year. I replaced pretty much everything, and nothing worked.

 

Until....I realised I'd overlooked the plug leads. I changed them and all the running problems instantly dissapeared. The old ones looked fine, with no obvious arcing etc., but they were well and truly knackered.

 

These cars seem to be very sensitive to the type and condition of plug leads, and it's something I really should have remembered from years ago.