[engine_work] 2.2 Gti6 Engine Build

[dav1 7]

ordered one off these manifolds me self. Should be here soon, hope it does make some good improvement. I used to run a longman one.

[Mad Scientist 106]

Did you order trumpets too? The key is getting the correct length inlet tract.

[dav1 7]

no didt order trumpets there bloody pricey. Thought the longer the better. I got 65mm trumpets already they any good?

[Mad Scientist 106]

It depends what tract length you want, from valve to bell mouth. I have gone for 350mm.

[welshpug 1,657]

how's it going Pete?

[Sandy 191]

Waiting for me basically...

[marksorrento205 80]

Waiting for me basically...

 

Pull your finger out then

[Sandy 191]

All my fingers are out!

[marksorrento205 80]

[Mad Scientist 106]

Yeah, been a bit quiet on here.

 

As he says above, Sandy is still working on the head. He has other commitments to get out the door first.

 

To be honest, I'm glad of the break! It was all getting to me a bit to be honest. I've also not had the spare cash for the project this month due to apparently "essential" home purchases! Got to keep the wife happy too though!

 

Should have the head back by the end of the month, then I'll get cracking.

 

In the mean time, I have been doing some seam welding in the engine bay, and making up some brackets for a new oil cooler. Pics to follow, when I can be arsed!

 

In the meantime, it's back to the new furniture and carpets!

 

[Mad Scientist 106]

Should be getting the head back from Sandy this week, fingers crossed!

 

 

[Sandy 191]

A few pics of what I've been up to on the head. The cams Pete's using now require alot of valve to valve clearance. The only way to achieve this is by cutting the valve seats deeper into the head. In doing so, you lose the chamber shape, spring install, shim heights, chamber volume and throat shapes, so it creates alot of remedial work. Because most of my XU/EW engines are being built with this in mind, I factor it all in from the start, but Pete's head needed to be almost entirely re-worked to make these cams viable. Note also, that bigger valve sizes make the problem even worse and that needs to be considered when choosing them.

 

First stage was to check the cams would swing in the head casting ok, which they did, then the inlet seats are re-cut on the Serdi machine to my preferred height and the exhaust seats cut down in stages until the needed valve to valve clip clearance is achieved. You can see in this pic, that it leaves a considerable difference in the chamber against the top cut of the seats, which takes a huge amount of sculpting to correct and it needs to be damn near identical on all of them!

 

 

Once I'd done the necessary chamber work and re-porting/shaping of the throats, the head was back to be re-faced. The previous skim was pretty flat, but too coarse really for a reliable MLS gasket seal. Also there would inevitably be a few minor marks I'd made while doing the chambers and ports. First a fly cut skim to take the meat off (usually all a head gets):

 

 

Then I surface grind for the ultimate fine finish and extremely true flatness:

 

 

Once washed through the tanks enough to remove all machining debris, it's a clean environment for the building up. The spring heights ended up close to ideal for the seat pressure I wanted (different to the specified install height), but the exhaust side needed some washers ground to size under the lower pans.

 

 

A sneaky look at the new chamber, it gets very Honda like with this work!

 

 

And a final view of the fine gasket face and valves:

 

 

I've done most of the shimming now, but a few inlets left to grind. (Again surface ground, for ultimate precision).

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Nice work and write up Sandy

[petert 586]

then the inlet seats are re-cut on the Serdi machine to my preferred height and the exhaust seats cut down in stages until the needed valve to valve clip clearance is achieved.

 

If doing it this way, why not make it shimless?

[Sandy 191]

Doesn't quite reach on these valves and BC, but I usually do TUs that way.

[Mad Scientist 106]

Nice update Sandy, thanks.

 

Everything is coming together now, and the final assembly is hopefully only days away!

 

I have started thinking more about oil control though. I had initially thought about running some extra baffles welded to the windage tray to combat the slop a little. I then looked into the pug sport baffle kit, but frankly, it's over priced and not that well engineered. With either of these options would be a new oe oil pump.

 

I was also going to add an accusump for extra piece of mind, which seems to do the trick of managing short losses of pressure with extreme cornering.

 

However, I'm now looking at the possibility of a dry sump setup. It's probably the most bullet proof option, and I want to keep this engine as safe as possible. There's a few quid in it now.

 

The only things that concern me are the tank location, and the belt driven pump.

 

I don't want to run the tank in the boot since, being a stage car, it would need to be boxed in. Despite this, i would also not be comfortable having 6 litres of boiling oil in the boot, unprotected from a rear impact. Ive seen how small the back of a 205 gets in an impact! It would also take long pipe runs, with bulkhead fittings etc. etc. I need to measure up, but I think I can get a custom tank under the bonnet, since my battery is in the car. Has anyone seen this in a 205 before? Does it need to be a round tank to aid oil/air separation or not? How big a volume tank should I be looking at?

 

The second issue is a belt driven pump, which could be thrown by as little as a piece of gravel. This should not be a problem since I will find a way to box it in as best I can. Again, any thoughts? I'm thinking extensions to the sump guard.

[Sandy 191]

The belt drive on the Pace set up is very exposed and needs to be protected. The kit on the last engine I did with one had the wrong pulley supplied too (which they didn't recognise even when illustrated!) so it's not exactly easy. But for peace of mind yeah... it's the only way.

[Mad Scientist 106]

I'll give pace a ring tomorrow I think. I'll have a word with you when we speak next Sandy.

 

Been looking at Wardy18's old thread where he mounted the pace tank under the bonnet. It was a bit tight with the pace 8.25x16 inch tank. I was looking at having one made, so could alter the dimensions to make things easier. Need to do a bit of research into oil volumes and baffle designs.

 

I don't see the need for a split tank that enables cleaning, any thoughts? I've never cleaned a wet sump during an oil change!

 

I am a worrier by trade, and I think this is going to have to be an essential addition.

[Cameron 16]

Might be worth you speaking to AT Power, they were working on an XU dry sump system that I was going to use for my build. It's based on a Pace system as they bought all the tech, but with some improvements apparently.

 

You can also get them anodised black.

[Mad Scientist 106]

Cheers Cameron. I'll call them too. Spent the last 3 hours looking at tank designs!

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

<p>A split tank is a good idea, but not essential.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If its that bad and the tank isn't splitable either send it to said engine builder for them to clean it/fill it with petrol/buy a new one. Delete as applicable, but even custom tanks aren't great deals of money so £150 to ensure no swarf over £5k for an engine is worth while.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I've got to say from my experience even in downforce vehicles there are rarely baffles in the tanks, and if they are its very basic designs, simple separations and bowls. Once again from my experience you run a large amount of oil over a wet sump setup, generally speaking 20-30%.</p>

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[petert 586]

Have you considered an accumulator?

[Batfink 201]

The standard pace oil tank one is very large. Realistically a shorter height one is perfectly feasible and would sit above the gearbox. Thats where I will be putting mine.

[Mad Scientist 106]

Agree with the above comments. I propose to have a split tank made up to my drawings, which will probably be around 2-3 inches shorter than the pace tank, and possibly slighter wider to accomodate near enough the same volume.

 

I did consider an accumulator and sump baffling Peter, but whilst it will do the job, it isn't really a solution. As i've said, I am a worrier, and only a dry sump is going to give me peace of mind to concentrate on driving, rather than worrying about oil pressure. I did price up an accusump with suitable fittings etc, along with a pugsport baffle kit. The difference between that and a pace dry sump kit isnt worth worrying about at this stage. I am also suspicious of the standard pumps ability at higher revs. I think it is likely to be starting to cavitate at the sort of revs I will be using. Could be wrong, but ive seen a few high spec wet sump builds die for no really obvious reason.

 

So...................today I have ordered a full Pace drysump kit, with a couple of modifications. Rather than having rubber hose attached with jubilee clips to the scavenge pipes, they are brazing -12 JIC fittings onto the pan, and fitting the pump with the same. This will allow me to run full braided hoses with crimped connections for security.

 

Also ordered my Piper verniers. They are blue, which is worth approximately 20bhp.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

25 if you get red ones

 

nice build