[engine_work] 2.2 Gti6 Engine Build

[welshpug 1,657]

doesn't the water pump gasket come with the pump any more?

 

there are a few varying thickness of oil pump spacer plates listed on Servicebox.

[Mad Scientist 106]

The waterpump gasket does, but I am reusing the OE pump that was new on the original engine (2000 miles remember). To be honest, I could have reused the gasket too, but for the sake of a couple of quid I ordered it.

 

I didn't know the pump spacer came in different thicknesses, but I now have 3 or 4, so hopefully I can work something out.

 

Was a bit dissapointed in the oil pump chain. It looks like a very cheap chain, with no branding etc. I will have to check the original again, but I suspect that was the same.

 

Rich W has told me about the trouble he has had with oil pump chains at higher revs. It worries me!

 

I am also a little concerned about cavitation at high revs, but noone seems to have had any problems. Short of a dry sump, I can't see any alternatives.

 

Any thoughts gents?

 

 

I'd also like to get some oppinions on ceramic coatings for the manifold. Spoke to Zircotec and Camcoat today and their prices vary wildly. Has anyone else used a ceramic coating? Would be good to keep underbonnet temps down as much as possible.

 

The process Camcoat use is as follows:

 

Bake manifold at 400 degress to remove impurities.

Sandblast inside AND out

Ceramic coat inside AND out then cure in oven

Add a matt black second coating externally then cure in over

Add a second coat of matt black externally then cure in oven

 

Sounds very comprehensive. Cost £200 plus vodka and tonic.

 

Zircotec:

 

Sandblast manifold.

External ceramic coating only. Matt white. Applied with a (quote) "heated plasma process that effectively welds the ceramic to the metal"

Sounds a bit salesmen to me.

Apparently though, they are very well regarded, used by WRC and F1 teams etc etc.

 

Cost £300 plus vodka and tonic.

 

Obviously the Camcoat process seems much more extensive and cost effective............

 

Any thoughts?

[Mad Scientist 106]

Bit of a mission last night to get the "dummy" engine built up and in the engine. Ended up using an old 1.9 box for the job too.

 

All ready and off to JP Exhausts

 

 

I think this crank seal might leak a bit!

 

 

Whilst assembling the dummy engine, I got a view of the head and valves you don't normally see. Thought it was quite interesting to demonstrate the squish band etc. Note this is the old head with standard valves, in the old 87mm block. Shows how little room there is between the valves and the 86mm standard cylinder.

 

 

[Cameron 16]

Good to see you've got a project thread up, looks like you're doing great work too.

 

I would go with Zircotec for the coating tbh, the plasma spraying process may sound like salesman jargon but it's definitely the best and most durable - hence the price!

[Mad Scientist 106]

But they only coat it externally?.......

[Cameron 16]

That's the only place it's needed tbh.

[Mad Scientist 106]

Work on the manifold is progressing nicely. Bribing the fabricators with hobnobs certainly helped!

 

I also got my conrods today, and very nice they are too!

[marksorrento205 80]

More pics then you homo!

[Mad Scientist 106]

UPDATE:

 

Car is still at JP getting the manifold done. Its taking them a while, since I asked for a few things that make it trickier. i.e. A one piece flange, and no slip joints. This means the whole thing is fully welded. Obviously this makes making it a pain, but also getting it in and out a pain. Once fitted, it will need the subframe dropping or the engine removing to get it out. The advantage is it will be much more solid, and less likely to leak anywhere.

 

In other news...................... still waiting for my cams, since I ordered a custom grind. These should be here next week. My engine machinist is a perfectionist, and he won't machine the pistons until he has the head, so he can double check combustion volumes etc. He also wants to dummy build the engine with the cams to check clearances. Whilst I will also be doing this, its this extra level of detail thats going to ensure this engine is right.

 

Also got another delivery today, my Total Seal piston rings. There are mixed views on these, but I fancied trying them.

 

 

Colin Satchell is fabricating the inlet manifold this week, and this should be back next week too. Happy days.

 

[Mad Scientist 106]

Almost forgot the rods!

 

Not the greatest picture, but you get the idea!

 

 

Thanks to Sandy for providing Robson's with the diesel journal dimensions and petrol bearing dimensions to suit.

 

Note the rods are etched Farndon Racing.................the sister company to Robson's conrods (literally run by their Sister!) Farndon specialise is cranks, and will knock a custom billet and nitrided crank up for c. £1200........................Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe the next build!

 

Edited November 15, 2011 by Mad Scientist

[welshpug 1,657]

diesel/petrol differences? thought they were the same? what were the scary numbers on the rods?

[Mad Scientist 106]

They have been made to fit the diesel big end journals, which are wider than the petrol journals, but still using the petrol sized bearings. I never measured the bearings, but Sandy told me there were differences in widths and location tabs. The important part is they fit the diesel journals, which takes up the side to side movement. This allows the small end to float on the wrist pin. My old rods were standard S16 items, and I had to run spacers either side of the small end to take up the float. They weren't too bad actually, but since I got a deal, i'll PM you the price!

 

[welshpug 1,657]

ahh I forgot the widths varied

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Never had any luck with the total lack of Seal rings on a couple of customers engines (Not built but me but had to repair), So I know about the mixed reviews and wound never use them.

 

What rev's are you looking at running to, 8500 seems fine on the std chain from experance

[Mad Scientist 106]

Well i'll follow their instructions to the letter and keep my fingers crossed.

 

As for the chain, i'll not be going north of 8500, so should be OK. Main concern is the new Pug supplied item is not a branded part. The original chain is a Sach item. What's your opinion on this?

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Not seen the new ones so I cannot comment, Only the older one's of which thankfully I do have one new one for my engine and a good job by the sounds of it.

I'd look for someone who can make chains to order, It doesn;t look like a odd size which is a good thing

[Mad Scientist 106]

Had a closer look at the chains today, and the new one is not THAT bad. It is unbranded, but the box promises its made in France. Seems similar, but to me the pins dont look dressed as neatly. Opinions please?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saw the exhaust manifold today too, and unfortunately had to pay for it. My GOD, what a work of art!

 

[dav1 7]

I used total seal piston rings an they seal fine for 220bhp. Obviously not your power your going for, but pug1off supplied them. They said they use them. Plus they do run a 300bhp gti6 engine. You do have to file them to fit and measure up with fellah gauges, but then its down to you how accurate you make them. Instructions are really good and simple this will be a piece off piss for you, i did it.

Edited November 16, 2011 by dav1

[Sandy 191]

Have a look at the video of that "300bhp" GTi6, 70bhp Tx loss on a Superflow single roller run at exceptionally high speed (the same roller one of my friends was told 15bhp loss was to be expected with his 205)... plus the rpms don't correspond with the gearing and wheel speed. No doubt a strong engine, but I'd be surprised if it's genuinely that strong.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Sandy

[Mad Scientist 106]

That's what I thought. Seems a bit optimistic. I do know a hell of a lot of money went into it though........titanium valve train.

 

Anyway, welcome along Sandy! Stick around!

[welshpug 1,657]

looking at the chain I can't seem much difference other than one is oil stained and branded!

 

as long as there's not excessive lateral play it'll be fine, most cheaper bike chains aren't dressed in any way on the pins, the ones that do tend to be for geared systems where they are given much more stresses sideways than single speed systems.

[Mad Scientist 106]

The pistons are finally being machined this week and the bottom end is being check balanced with the new rods and flywheel. Hopefully get it back and the bottom end built up next week.

I asked the machinist opinion on the total seal rings, and they have used them to good effect. (They are very experienced and succesful engine builders by the way).They are extremely careful to get the honing to the correct spec.

 

I also received some Torco goodies today from a supplier. I have 5 litres of break in oil, various assembly lubes, and some zinc additive for the first oil change after the break in oil. I've used their assembly lubricants on the last few engines I've built, but never tried their break in oil before.

 

 

Looked at the chain again too Mei, and it's not too bad really. Fingers crossed!

[ash mi16 0]

nice build dude

[dav1 7]

Any more news on this pete?

[Mad Scientist 106]

Just waiting on parts being made and machined at the moment. Colin Satchell is making the inlet manifold, trumpets and a weld in strut brace. The machine shop is machining the pistons. Hopefully get the engine parts back next week and get the bottom end assembled over the weekend.