Old Car Surprises Civic Type R

[matt.f 16]

I find it hilarious that a French car forum is talking about rust and reliability!

I know,people on here are blinkered!

French don't rust they rot!!there is a difference.

[SurGie 54]

I see a hell of a lot more Old Peugeot's ie 1980's cars than i do Honda's, Vauxhalls especially.

 

I agree the fair well, mine is nearly 20 years old and solid, just the fuel tank area needed sorting out.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

People that talk about rot on 205's really don't know the meaning of the word. The 205 is one of the best cars for rust protection in its era. How many Novas, Metros, Escorts, Fiestas, Renault 5's, Nissan Micras, of the same era still survive on the road compared to 205's, there are still lots of base models and diesels kicking about.

 

Anyone who has had a classic Mini or an old Ford knows the meaning of rot.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Tom Fenton

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Anyone who has had a classic Mini or an old Ford knows the meaning of rot.

 

Agreed, mate had an old mini. Got it back to his, put his foot straight through the floor pan, whole floor pan was rotted.

Nissan 200sx's are really bad for it!

[allye 530 3 Cars]

I find it hilarious that a French car forum is talking about rust and reliability!

 

I'v had 5 205's (and as of yesturday 1 309) never broken down, none have never not started and none have had that bad rust compared to other cars of the era.

[205_sunderland 4]

I find it hilarious that a French car forum is talking about rust and reliability!

 

 

The gti was one of the first cars to be galvanised was it not? They are excellent body wise and ive never had a rotten one yet.

 

Ive found mine have been damn reliable cars aswell as i maintain them well, ive done god knows how many long journeys,given them hell at times and the only two times ive ever broken down was 1. when the servo failed so i had to get towed home with no brakes (my old gti) and 2. was my own fault as i used a sock to act as a filter for a test drive and the maf sucked the sock in and jammed shut

 

Most new french cars suck to be fair but the gti is a breed of its own and very well made.So much so im thinking of getting another for winter now instead of a 4x4

[kyepan 291]

Perhaps his point is that some cars require only occasional servicing and very little maintenance by comparison, I'm not going to get into a discussion about it. But the facts are, some VAG and Jap cars will run around for years on the same original suspension for example, without any need for maintenance, because the design is more robust. Take 205 wishbone bushes for example, a poor design maintenance wise, varied direction high loads placed on puny small small bushes. Compare them in size to something like a modern audi, massive saucer shaped bushes everywhere, or even old golfs, again better design, or an mx-5.. so much bushing and suspension that the loads are spread about.

 

Carry this through to the attitude towards electrical connector block quality, an equivalent year japanese car (i have one) will have fully sealed waterproof connector blocks of considerable quality, rather than open backed multispade push fit, again these are flawed and will oxidize over time. Looms are not wrapped as meticulously or routed away from vibration and heat. I could go on and on.

 

ps, this wasn't supposed to start as a rant, it's just that some posts on here are such gross over-generalisations.. (trolling) that I did bite a little.

 

yes you like your 205, yes it's a fun car.. yes they can be reliable if well maintained... quantity and frequency of maintenance is the issue, and pretending they don't require it is just not the experience of the vast majority of owners.

 

I've had 2 205's over the last 4 years and have been through a total of 5 sets of wishbone bushes. 1 poly, 2 pattern, 2 OEM & 1 set of OEM top mounts, two sets of drop links. I have as many others have, also suffered from poor connector blocks causing random electrical issues, poorly protected terminations such as on the starter, fray's due to rubbing, heat damage from hot engine components. But the theme is clear enough.

 

J

[205_sunderland 4]

Perhaps his point is that some cars require only occasional servicing and very little maintenance by comparison, I'm not going to get into a discussion about it. But the facts are, some VAG and Jap cars will run around for years on the same original suspension for example, without any need for maintenance, because the design is more robust. Take 205 wishbone bushes for example, a poor design maintenance wise, varied direction high loads placed on puny small small bushes. Compare them in size to something like a modern audi, massive saucer shaped bushes everywhere, or even old golfs, again better design, or an mx-5.. so much bushing and suspension that the loads are spread about.

 

Carry this through to the attitude towards electrical connector block quality, an equivalent year japanese car (i have one) will have fully sealed waterproof connector blocks of considerable quality, rather than open backed multispade push fit, again these are flawed and will oxidize over time. Looms are not wrapped as meticulously or routed away from vibration and heat. I could go on and on.

 

ps, this wasn't supposed to start as a rant, it's just that some posts on here are such gross over-generalisations.. (trolling) that I did bite a little.

 

yes you like your 205, yes it's a fun car.. yes they can be reliable if well maintained... quantity and frequency of maintenance is the issue, and pretending they don't require it is just not the experience of the vast majority of owners.

 

I've had 2 205's over the last 4 years and have been through a total of 5 sets of wishbone bushes. 1 poly, 2 pattern, 2 OEM & 1 set of OEM top mounts, two sets of drop links. I have as many others have, also suffered from poor connector blocks causing random electrical issues, poorly protected terminations such as on the starter, fray's due to rubbing, heat damage from hot engine components. But the theme is clear enough.

 

J

 

 

i get what your saying but vag cars suck aswell which is why i sold me corrado and scirocco, yes the parts last a long time suspension wise but the cars eat you out of house and home on everything else.

 

Every sensor on them costs a bloody bomb and needs changing all the time to keep them running right,plugs are a fortune,coils go alot, oil costs alot too and they burn also.

 

To service my gti costs about £40 with good oil, my 20v corrado cost nearer £100 as the plugs are just shy of £50 alone. Plus stupid things like the maf need doing yearly to keep it going right, and you need n75 valves every 5 minutes all in all......its false economy imho . This is based on a high line engine however, ive got no idea what the newer 1600's etc are like except for having severe gearbox and head gasket issues on the mk4. My scirocco wasnt too bad to run and was reliable but i feel companys like vw,audi etc have lost there way with modern cars (my friend who also works for the rac confirms this as he said they break down ALOT now) he does have a gti hes restoring aswell though so could be biased

 

He did say jap is most reliable for new cars too but only in the non sporty model which id rather not drive anyway from past experience

Edited October 12, 2011 by 205_sunderland

[kyepan 291]

I agree, service parts for the pug are historically quite cheap, when compared to VAG, and our older jetronic relies less on sensors. However some forums simply have a mantra of curing running issues by needlessly replacing everything sensor / ignition wise, rather than using fault code readers and a good old volt meter to diagnose the specific issue. My old pulsar / mx5 nuts forums are in the front of my mind when i say this. Granted that's a bit of a generalisation. Incidentally, simplicity of servicing and cheap parts.. is the main reason i bought my pug, you get what you ask for in life don't you think.

 

50 quid for a set of six plugs is daylight robbery, either you were turned over or choosy about the temperature and make of the plug.

I assume you mean vr6 plugs? four quid each.

 

J

Edited October 12, 2011 by kyepan

[matt.f 16]

You do see a fair amount of 205's about still but they do rot(as with most 80/90's cars).

The point I'm making is that 'jap cars are reliable,look at all the old top gear surveys,Honda,subar and Toyota iirc always won!

205 still the best old hot hatch and I love mine

[Chris_Mi 6]

Anything will rot in Burnley. Including plastic. It rains 366 days a year

[custard-rallye 25]

Just before I bought my pulsar (waits for bad comments) I test drove a ek civic with a b18 out of a dc2 itr so had LSD aswell and walked away just felt gutless and when vtec yo! Kicked in it didn't do anything for me. but as said above you have to change your driving style they need worked I also service a mates standard ep3 and love the chassis handles ace Jackson racing sc ones are mental and d series turbo's

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

I wonder if the people who talk about 205s rotting have only owned ones that have been crash repaired with non genuine panels? I live a couple of minutes from the sea on the south coast and none of the 6 205s that I've owned have had any rust.

[matt.f 16]

Does rain in Burnley yeah lol.

 

Mine hasn't been crash repaired,been a panel beater 13 year so know what to look for.

[GLPoomobile 958]

When I was looking for my first car, I had a look at a D reg 205 in Exmouth. The seller had already told me on the phone that it was in the garage getting the floorpan welded up for the MOT. When we went to see it, it was a total rot bucket. My dad was enthusiastically prodding away, as he does, and nearly pulled the sill off the drivers side. Let alone the huge area of the passenger footwell that had just been plated up, the whole thing was just full of tin worm. This would have been around 1998, so the car would have been about 12 years old at the time. The only connection I can form is that Exmouth is a coastal town in Devon, so maybe the salty air had been to blame.

 

But there's exceptions to everything, and this was one. Luckily it didn't put me off buying my first GTI a few years later.

 

Just for the record....

First car, D reg Mk2 Astra - always bloody reliable, but did rot around the rear arches, sills and behind the rear bumper

2nd car, F reg 1.6 GTI - generally reliable apart from a recurring issue, which all these years later I suspect was a simple duff ECU temp sender

3rd car, H reg Civic - exceptionally reliable, but rotted like a mare on the rear arches and sills

4th car, J reg 1.9 GTI - reliable, but shell was in a bad way after bad accident repair

5th car, H reg 1.6 GTI - reliable, shell generally good with just the usual 205 rust spots

6th car, G reg 1.6 GTI - most expensive car I've ever bought, it's the ex-concourse GTI converted to Mi16 by DES Developments before my ownership. It has been without question, the most problematic car I've owned by a huge margin. I went from being a carefree GTI enthusiast who would defend 205 reliablility to the hilt, to an owner who always hated driving their 205 for fear it would break down. I think this is an illustration that once you start messing with old cars and changing their spec, no matter how well the work is done, it will often just lead to problems. Look at the grief that Kyepan has with his!

[Mad Scientist 106]

I touched some nerves there I think.

 

I'm not going to do that again, but Honda do have a phenomenal reputation for quality. They have sold over 1 million vtec (yo!) units without a single engine failure (presumably under warranty). Ours burns no oil whatsoever and is a joy to drive on the "twisties" and on track, but it will also commute to the Nurburgring without leaving you with a single ache or pain!

 

Anyway, i'm not going to stir this thread up anymore. I'm out!

 

Final thought:

 

I hate my underpowered Audi barge

I like my Clivic Type R

I love my 205.

 

[kyepan 291]

i don't think you said anything wrong... you're allowed to say what you think in my opinion.

 

I personally Love the DC2.. a guy that used to ride big bikes had one in the late 90's, he could drive, really drive hard, the sound of that 1.8 is still etched in my memory. Another friend bought a DC2 recently,and after my brother in law had owned a civic for years, i still swear the DC2 was faster, sounded better, and reved better, and had a diff, and a longer wheel base, and was probably lighter, and had as much power... and and and.. they only cost 3k now + money to have the rear arches patched.

 

Pulsars are purposeful point to point cars, big turbo, throttle bodies, solid lifters, respond well to a mild cam, very tune-able, that will see off most other things on the road (except diesel rep mobiles up a hill). I owned one for a couple of years, it was scary quick, more so in the way it came on boost and could apply the power to the road, it's mechanical level of grip. An impressive and temperamental beast, buyer beware for sure.

 

the parallel between the two is that they have dual modes and speeds of driving, 1) pootle, 2) brapp. Not much in between. granted both could be driven in the middle ground, but the spooling whistle of the turbo or the bark of the cam phasing will always encourage your right foot to push harder. Try and stop yourself, you can't because your weak, it's got you under it's spell..too late.

 

Throttle-bodies...

 

J

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

A mate of mine had a HG fail on a Civic TR '04 plate, 1st one in Uk apparently. Didn't help it had a bolt on turbo on it in an earlier life

[custard-rallye 25]

Kyepan how much power did your pulsar have?

 

Kyepan how much power did your pulsar have?

[205_sunderland 4]

I agree, service parts for the pug are historically quite cheap, when compared to VAG, and our older jetronic relies less on sensors. However some forums simply have a mantra of curing running issues by needlessly replacing everything sensor / ignition wise, rather than using fault code readers and a good old volt meter to diagnose the specific issue. My old pulsar / mx5 nuts forums are in the front of my mind when i say this. Granted that's a bit of a generalisation. Incidentally, simplicity of servicing and cheap parts.. is the main reason i bought my pug, you get what you ask for in life don't you think.

 

50 quid for a set of six plugs is daylight robbery, either you were turned over or choosy about the temperature and make of the plug.

I assume you mean vr6 plugs? four quid each.

 

J

 

 

Nope it was 1.8t plugs for 4, you have to use the right ngk or denso's platinum/iridium things just to make them run right and alot of the faults i had with mine didnt even show up on the code reader so i had to change the lot just to figure it out as all these sensors for vag seem to semi break so they show up ok but are not working 100% until you do data llgging to pin point it

 

I agree though alot of people on the forums just change the lot and i dont like wasting money so i spent hours looking it over untill i got it right but still in the end i had to change the lot as it would not boost 100% unless every little thing was in amazing nick....what a waste of time

 

and did somebody say pulsar, how many diffs and boxes you have to change on that bad boy? my m8 had a 350bhp one (might have been more but long time ago now) with launch control etc and it was rapid but a complete money pit as even all the uprated boxes and diffs he spent 1000s on still blew up all the time

Edited October 13, 2011 by 205_sunderland

[kyepan 291]

Pedal box sheered off the bulkhead, resulting in dash out / welding

Slave cylinder on the clutch went

Two clutches in 18 months, both uprated AP racing, The first went so fast I got a refund from AP

One box, the casing split and was spurting oil all over the bulkhead.

Knock sensor

 

I had a good one, didn't launch it, ran a conservative 290bhp @ 1 bar, was running 1.1 originally.

 

It was before i knew what I was doing, otherwise i would have done the work myself.

 

Exactly, you need to back-probe most things when they are running to figure out the actual / intermittent issue, and or have an oscilloscope and know how to use it.

Edited October 13, 2011 by kyepan

[feb 47]

You can't blame the car when from factory it has 220bhp or so and it is tuned to x1.6 its power!!

 

The drivetrain and related components are designed to work within a certain range and if the user has no mechanical sympathy or understanding of this and always drives the car like there is no tomorrow of course he will have problems, what does he expect?!

 

I know someone who has blown 5 engines in a 400 bhp Forester, gearboxes etc. (and has spent $$,$$$) but the way he drives is crazy. Redlining it all the time, off roading and hitting the limiter with the wheels spinning etc.

Does that mean anything? To me not (other than the person is a muppet).

 

Others have done 90.000 km even running on LPG (on an almost standard 2.5 XT) without a single problem.

 

Rant over.

Edited October 13, 2011 by feb

[custard-rallye 25]

My pulsar has 411hp so far so good touch wood :-)

[kyepan 291]

I agree, in standard trim, they are pretty solid. In hindsight I wonder if box oil temperature was responsible for many failures. Reason I say this is the guy who posted up about fixing all his transmission related gearbox issues by fitting a pumped oil cooler to the box. That was a guy racing his 205 by the way. The transfer and rear diff were solid. It was selector forks and stripped synchro on second that accounted for most of the failures.

[custard-rallye 25]

There is a company selling cast iron cases now apparently not much Heavier than standard and alot stronger