Am I Just Getting Old?

[Woody999 0]

Hi Folks, new to the forum....

 

Anyhoo, I have done the search thingy and done some of the things stated with no results, so here is the story.

 

I had a couple of 1.6 gti`s about 14 years ago a B plate and a D plate, now both were pretty rough and had been used the way they should have been. I loved the cars so much and always said I would get a 1.9 one day.

 

I have since moved to Australia, got the wife, kids and nice house, you know the story. I recently purchased a nice looking 1991 1.9 gti. Now on the west coast of Aus these are very rare and after checking it out my heart said yes, but my head was saying " too expensive, needs work, grow up!!"

 

So the issue is, have I just got used to driving faster modern cars (wrx) as the gti does not live up to the memories. This one is pretty slow in my opinion and I think slower than my old 1.6s.

I have had the injectors cleaned, got a compression test done 190psi all round, changed the oil and filter and messed about with the timing to both extremes with no gain??

 

Could it be purely fuel related? in AU the standard fuel is 91 I filled it with 95 and will try BP 98 today.

 

The other things to mention are the plugs are showing a very lean condition, the AFM was calibrated last year and the car is standard.

[welshpug 1,657]

which engine does it have?

[Woody999 0]

which engine does it have?

 

It has the 122hp cat version, I made sure it was not the crap one

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

It's the crap one compared to the 130 bhp model , better management on yours though.

[Anthony 1,003]

They're not quick compared to modern cars, and feel positively lethargic compared to something like a Scooby WRX - even a diesel repmobile will show one a clean pair of heels.

 

I guess it depends what you want, but whilst not quick outright, they are plenty quick enough to entertain in the right environment.

 

The popularity of 16v conversions is testiment to the fact that plenty of people want more these days though, and whilst still not brutally quick, a 16v converted 205 (eg Mi16/GTi-6) is sufficiently nippy and comparable to more modern machinery. Power delivery is obviously very different to a turbocharged motor like a WRX though.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Not bad at all, Truth be told the mid range and the couple of bhp difference in it the engine is better, But as said driving with a mere 122bhp will be slow even compared with modern day oil burner's, Only way forward is either a Turbo and a extra 8v's

[welshpug 1,657]

Well the scoob weighs about 50% more but has at least 100% more power and torque...

 

But its a very different car, so much more mechanical grip and balance.

 

 

Find a nice B-road and have a play

[Woody999 0]

Well the scoob weighs about 50% more but has at least 100% more power and torque...

 

But its a very different car, so much more mechanical grip and balance.

 

 

Find a nice B-road and have a play

 

B road, I wish............You have not been to Perth, Western Australia have you??

 

the roads are _____________________ehm__________________________Straight, not really the environment for my little PUG.

 

iIf there are any local WA boys who would like to give me an opinion, as I still think it should be faster

 

Cheers

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

I think it is just a case of humdrum run of the mill cars are just a lot more powerful than they used to be.

 

I have recently overhauled a 1.9 GTI for a couple who have owned it for a long time, they are now driving it for the first time in about 2 years and have said almost exactly the same thing as you, that it seems a lot slower than they remember. I've driven quite a lot of 1.9's and theirs is pretty average, not the fastest I've driven, but certainly not the slowest either, certainly nothing massively wrong with it.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Tom Fenton

[Woody999 0]

It's the crap one compared to the 130 bhp model , better management on yours though.

 

Yeh I know , but over here we did not get the 1.6 at all or the 130bhp 1.9.

 

The first ones they released i think were 1.9 with something like 109bhp because of the crap fuel....

[Joehow 0]

This sounds very situational, a 1.9 in fine fettle is plenty quick enough if kept on the boil.

 

Its the same story when you get a huge 60's American muscle car they are amazing in a straight line and sound unreal but show it a corner and you're in trouble. In the UK they don't make sense but for the market they were designed for they were brilliant.

 

Smooth tarmac, no corners, no camber, high ambient temps - not really 205 gti territory.

[Baz 421]

This sounds very situational, a 1.9 in fine fettle is plenty quick enough if kept on the boil.

 

 

 

Kept on the boil? If it's standard that'd be hard as they really don't like to rev as the flywheel's too heavy and the gearbox is too long.

 

Average and good 1.9's are worlds apart also, night and day difference between a good and a bad one.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Baz

[Kettmark 0]

Newbie here too. I've had my 1989 1.9 for 15 years now and recommissioned it 2 months ago after 12 years of being garaged. My daily driver for the past 7 years has been a BMW E46 330 ci sport (auto).

Talk about a contrast in driving feel!

The Pug feels very dated now, particularly noticable is the slender a & c pillars and the deep glass all round. However, the Pug is far more responsive low down than the BM. My gf said how fast the Pug felt the first time I took her out in it a few weeks ago.

To answer your question, I think we all remember the good things about the past and no doubt your memories of previous GTi's were that they were quick compared to other motors of the day.

I've had 5 205 GTi's now (& a 309 GTi), the first one (1.6) when I was 18. It was the dog's whatsits back in 1989, particularly compared to my mate's Strada's, Uno's, Fiesta's and X19.

[Richie 32]

I don't own a 205 because its powerful. Because it isn't. As mentioned, its slow compared to modern stuff. I own my 205 because its one of the very best drivers cars ever made.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

I don't own a 205 because its powerful. Because it isn't. As mentioned, its slow compared to modern stuff. I own my 205 because its one of the very best drivers cars ever made.

 

 

This is cock on to be honest.

 

I am as bad as the worst of them for modifying 205's, outside are two of them with non standard engines, suspension, brakes, etc etc.

 

However I used the car I mentioned above for about 120 miles after just refurbishing it for the owners, to shake it down and sort any niggles after it being sat for 2 years.

 

With new dampers all round, rebuilt beam etc, new Michelin PE2's, it really was a joy to drive, cornering is immense, it made me realise just how good a standard one is/was when as Peugeot intended, rather than what the average 205 is like now, which in reality is usually pretty tired with 120k mile old dampers etc.

 

I'd been half pondering getting a nice standard one anyway, but driving that really made my mind up, luckily just the car came along just last week, so I'm currently in negotiation for a lovely standard 1.6.

[Woody999 0]

To be Honest, I dont really care about the speed that much anyway, you are very restricted over here compaired to the UK with a 100kph speed limit and mobile speed cameras hiding in every bush.

 

I just love the way it makes me feel, yes it needs suspension work, gearbox is a bit loose and loads of other little bits and bobs, but I tell you what she bloody looks good compaired to the horrible V8 uts that is the average aussie sports car IMO .

 

Its funny how I cant even get a set of HT leads here for one, they are that rare I only know of one other that is in Bunbury about and hours drive from me.

 

Living the Dream!!

[Joehow 0]

I do have a l/b flywheel in my car along with a few other mods so I guess it is rev happier than a standard 1.9. I have always found the 1.9 engine to be similar to the Saxo VTR engine in terms of experience due to the longer gearing in that if you can keep flowing in third and fourth in the upper revs it certainly does move.

[Woody999 0]

So just to satisfy myself that we have fairly good pace for a 1.9 and I was just getting old, I filmed the 0-120kmh and compared it to the ones posted on youtube, yes I know I am a sado, don`t tell my wife she will take the total piss out me for this.

 

So the results are not good, the only one I found we were as quick as said his cat was stuffed and he had no power I make it just under 11 seconds to 100kmh

 

What next, is the 122bhp really that slow? the car seems to run fine no idle issues, no real noises or smoke, oil pressure is down a little but still hovers around 2 when warm and just cruising, although it does not move very much when I put the boot into it?

 

can I remove the cat and not have to change anything else?

Edited September 9, 2011 by Woody999

[Anthony 1,003]

No that doesn't sound right at all - in reality, the 122hp CAT model isn't much (if any) slower than the 128hp non-CAT model.

 

0-60 (100kmh) should be something around the 8-9 second mark depending how well/agressively you get off the line, a quick example getting into the 7's.

 

Blocked CAT is certainly a possibility and has happened before, which absolutely strangles the engine. Some aftermarket pattern part CAT are poor as well even without being blocked.

 

I don't know enough about the emissions regs in Oz to know whether you can remove the CAT legally - providing that whatever you replace it with has a boss for the lambda sensor, the engine / engine management won't care a jot if the CAT is missing though and won't thrown up the engine management light or similar.

[Woody999 0]

Hmmm, I knew it was bloody slow, I remember my old B plate 1.6 was a flying machine, and I used to race the guys home from work. One of the boys had a mrk 2 GTE and the other had an RS turbo.........we did okay, despite the 205 trying periodically to kill me .....it was nothing to do with the snap oversteer, but more to do with either the stearing rack or track rod ends.

 

The car every now and again would pull to the right as though it had a mind of its own, and it took all my strength to straighten the wheel, has anybody else ever had this problem in the past?

 

I digress!

 

any other ideas on the distinct lack of go, so far, I will have the cat checked, any more?

 

Cheers

[Woody999 0]

Update,

 

I used a infrared Thermometer to check the cat, it seems ok with the temp being hotter at the rear than the front, so by all accounts this is okay. Can anyone say if this is a good indicator of the cat condition or not as I cant think of what else to do at the moment.

 

I would take it to a garage by unless it is a Holden commodore or a Ford falcon, I think they will struggle too.

 

anyone want to take a ount and offer up a reason for my real lack of power?

 

Not anything basic I might add like brakes!

[Woody999 0]

Just pulled the throttle body off and while doing so noticed a bloody big split in the main oil filler tube under the filler end!!

 

Now that would cause a drop in oil pressure right??

 

Also the filler cap is the one with the metal gauze inside it, the gauze seems to have partially disintegrated and has been eaten by the engine as I found some bits further down the filler pipe when I was removing it. I assume as the pieces are so small that it would not have caused any real damage to the engine?

 

I will order a new filler pipe and end and let you know if we have an improvement in power. Might take a while as it will have to come from old blighty!

 

Cheers

 

Living the dream, suns shining not a cloud in the sky and I am up to my elbows in 205...............................

Edited September 10, 2011 by Woody999

[Atreides 2]

Have you had a good look at the exhaust, in particular the bore size? It's just a thought, but I'm wondering if a previous owner gas replaced it some point with a generic one from a 'lesser' 205, possibly due to the rarity of the cars out there??

 

The XU in any form is pretty sensitive to exhaust changes, as we all know, so it could be a simple case of strangled exhaust gases (fingers crossed!)...

[welshpug 1,657]

a split in the oil filler wont cause low oil pressure but will cause an air leak on the engine side of the inlet tract due to the engine breathers, this will mean that the AFM wont open as far as it should most of the time.

 

the smaller the pieces are from that gausze the more likely they are to get stuck somewhere and cause damage, most remove it to prevent it from finding its way into the sump if it is loose

[lagonda 42]

Unless they did something strange to Aussie market cars, you should find a big improvement with 98 octane. My 1.6 certainly goes better on 98. In Italy that could be difficult to find & it was 95 or nothing sometimes....poor performance, pinking, & (even) worse petrol consumption.

You will also need to set the ignition timing to suit 98....simply advance the distributor until the car pinks under load, then turn it back a fraction, tighten bolts & job done.

The gauze in the oil filler can easily be replaced with one of those stainless steel pan scourers....a whole one fits in nicely. Trust Peugeot bean counters to fit something that rusts in an environment where condensation is inevitable!