Timing Up A New Head...

[BlueBolt 156]

OK... I'm going to be adding a whole project thread up soon with all the details of what I'm doing, and what the plans are to be done with pics etc, but for now I'm in some megger need of some help!!

 

I've got a nice uprated head, skimmed, Piper cam, uprated valves, springs etc etc...

 

I've lined everything up by eye to begin with to get it looking right with how the old head came off, placed head on, tightened everything up, checked everything over and have cranked it by hand...

 

No problems!!

 

Crank over using the key...

 

Nothing!!

 

It's trying to start, there's no knocking, no sticking, no valve smacking or anything like that happening... But also no spark!!

 

I've got it down to being the timing!! It's got to be quite a way out I'm thinking, but I'm now at the stage where I need some help with this!!

 

When the engine was turned on the key I was flooding the sparks, big time!!

Turn engine by key, pull out sparks, dripping with fuel... Take all out, checked that the dizzy cap was all lined up right, double check and put back, turn engine with no sparks in to clear the chambers, refit sparks, turn on the key and it bangs out of the exhaust once, but nothing else.

 

I need help setting this up now, I know it's out by a little, but probably a little in a couple of places...

 

Is there anyone near by to me in Walderslade, Chatham, Kent, that would be willing to pop by and see what you think?? Maybe make sure I have everything connected up to the right sensors and pipes etc??

 

I've been waiting a while for the site to re allow me to register and post up threads, so am now getting slightly on the desperate side to get this car running..... Need it to get to and from work too lol

[dcc 855]

unplug the fuel pump and make sure you have plugged everything back in properly. if every thing mechanical is as it should be then it will fire, unless you've forgotten to plug something back in, like AFM, ECU temp sensor, An earth here or there...

 

I would unplug fuel pump, get some jumper leads on her and crank it over for 30 seconds to burn off the fuel thats in there... I would thencover all the basics, Fuel, Spark and air.

[BlueBolt 156]

Yea we did that, but the other way by taking off the injector plugs, taking the sparks out, jumping it off my durv Leon Cupra and getting rid of the fuel that way...

 

There's two temp sensors that are down by the dizzy cap, one with a big deep head, and the other with a shallower head on it... Anyone know the wire numbers that go to each one??

 

The problem has been put down to the timing, it's fuelling either too early or too late which is giving me the dripping sparks...??

[jackherer 543]

it's fuelling either too early or too late which is giving me the dripping sparks...??

 

It is more likely to be over fuelling, check the connection to the ECU coolant temp sensor which is a blue two pin plug on the thermostat housing (the two with single spade connectors are for the temp gauge and warning light) and also check the airflow meter connection.

[BlueBolt 156]

It is more likely to be over fuelling, check the connection to the ECU coolant temp sensor which is a blue two pin plug on the thermostat housing (the two with single spade connectors are for the temp gauge and warning light) and also check the airflow meter connection.

 

 

AFR plug is good, will check the ecu connector too... Wouldn't make a difference to the starting then the spade connectors lol

[jackherer 543]

No, they just connect to the dash, they don't affect the ECU at all.

[stuart1298 6]

Are you def getting a spark, have you taken the plugs out, pushed them in to the end of the leads and let it earth on the engine, check if you actually have a spark, might be a f***ed cap, arm or coil

[BlueBolt 156]

Are you def getting a spark, have you taken the plugs out, pushed them in to the end of the leads and let it earth on the engine, check if you actually have a spark, might be a f***ed cap, arm or coil

 

 

Checked

[jackherer 543]

It definitely sounds like over fuelling to me, the easiest way to check is to unplug the fuel pump (or just remove its fuse) while cranking, if it runs for a second or two as the fuel pressure goes down it is definitely over fuelling

[stuart1298 6]

And you have a good spark? Might sound stupid. Have you got the firing order correct, not sure what it is, i'm sure some one on here will no

[BlueBolt 156]

And you have a good spark? Might sound stupid. Have you got the firing order correct, not sure what it is, i'm sure some one on here will no

 

 

Yea, got that checked and double checked...

 

1 3 4 2 is the order I've found...

 

It's in that order but not starting with the 1 as that didn't line up right...

 

Nothing will sound stupid to me!! Believe me!! I'm not the greatest when it comes to these things, but i've got a reasonable base knowledge and couple of mates with good knowledge too... Though their knowledge is more on the Renault side than anything else it's all more or less the same when it comes to the main engine and it starting or not lol

[stuart1298 6]

Have you used 1 as the gear box or cam belt side? It's French remember, so goes from gear box, I forgot this when I was putting my car together

[BlueBolt 156]

Have you used 1 as the gear box or cam belt side? It's French remember, so goes from gear box, I forgot this when I was putting my car together

 

 

lol, no i remembered this too...

[stuart1298 6]

Did you use the timing marks on the engine that was already there

[dcc 855]

The new head you fitted, whats the specs on the cam? is everything times up to factory standard settings? is the belt in place properly? have you got a decent ignition amp fitted? do you have a healthy spark/spark plugs? do you get any sign of life ?

 

to be honest, you're pissing into the wind at this time of night as most of the things you need to check when its possible to alter small things as you go along

[stuart1298 6]

I've heard on the past that the pulley moves and puts the timing out, seen it on this forum or not, maybe some one can give you more info. See you in Chatham if I get my one going I'll try get down n have a look over the weekend, but would probably be in a few weeks as working Saturday, I'll let you no if I can help nearer the time

[BlueBolt 156]

That'd be great mate, keep me posted with that one and i'll update this and my project thread when, or if I finally get her started before hand...

 

You go Thurrock on Sat nights often or u just do the track in ur 205??

[stuart1298 6]

Neither yet, lol, both when it's done tho

[BlueBolt 156]

The new head you fitted, whats the specs on the cam? is everything times up to factory standard settings? is the belt in place properly? have you got a decent ignition amp fitted? do you have a healthy spark/spark plugs? do you get any sign of life ?

 

to be honest, you're pissing into the wind at this time of night as most of the things you need to check when its possible to alter small things as you go along

 

 

lol

 

Am not working on it at this time of night, am looking for ideas and guidance about what it could be and what i could try to change or alter to get it going..... lol

[stuart1298 6]

Is the cam belt and pulley the same? Count the teeth on new pulley, and old one, never know, if you've timed it up correctly, maybe the pulley has more or less teeth, sorry just trying to give you all the thing I can think off, have you or can you get a compression tester, I no a mate of mine bought a motor, that had just had new head gasket on the person he got it off couldn't get the thing started, so sold it proper cheap, turned out the head hadn't been tightened down, he had a right result in the end

[BlueBolt 156]

It definitely sounds like over fuelling to me, the easiest way to check is to unplug the fuel pump (or just remove its fuse) while cranking, if it runs for a second or two as the fuel pressure goes down it is definitely over fuelling

 

I agree with the over fuelling....

 

I'll give that idea a go tomorrow...

[BlueBolt 156]

Is the cam belt and pulley the same? Count the teeth on new pulley, and old one, never know, if you've timed it up correctly, maybe the pulley has more or less teeth, sorry just trying to give you all the thing I can think off, have you or can you get a compression tester, I no a mate of mine bought a motor, that had just had new head gasket on the person he got it off couldn't get the thing started, so sold it proper cheap, turned out the head hadn't been tightened down, he had a right result in the end

 

 

Got a mate with a comp tester that i'll try at the weekend if the over fuelling test doesn't work...

[petert 588]

Got a mate with a comp tester that i'll try at the weekend if the over fuelling test doesn't work...

 

Just because it has compression doesn't mean it will start either. I was asked recently to have a look at an S16 powered 205 that was ready to go on the dyno. The engine had just been rebuilt by a well known Peugeot mechanic. The engine had 230psi but just wouldn't fire. I go and have a look and discovered the inlet cam has zero lift at TDC. Definitely something wrong there. Further investigation reveals inlet cam is two teeth retarded, exhaust cam is two teeth advanced. Go figure.

[stuart1298 6]

Its just another thing to check

[Tandoh 17]

I had a similar problem with my 205 rallye the otherday. Turns out I had broken the dizzy itself...so the cam wasnt driving the rotor arm.

Another thing for you to check maybe? Good luck!