Copper Grease Wheel Bolts?

[GLPoomobile 958]

Copper grease on wheel bolts - yay or nay?

 

I've always greased my bolts, although usually with regular grease. And the reason I'm asking the question now is that I've just had to struggle with the bolts on my Alfa after having the tyres changed. I'd usually blame the garage for whizzing them up too tight on the air gun, but I don't think this is the case this time.

 

Some of the bolts came off fine, and they were still a little moist and greasy (especially the ones I'd had off the day before the tyres were changed). But some of them were an absolute c*nt, requiring serious effort with the breaker bar, and when they eventually gave they went with a CRACK! These ones were all dry and looked like they had dry copper grease in the threads.

 

So now I'm wondering if the copper grease drying out actually makes them more difficult to remove. Opinions?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I periodically use a small amount on mine yes. But before I slather them in grease I first clean up the threads of corrosion and debris with the wire brush in my bench grinder.

[Anthony 1,003]

As per Tom's reply above really, and I've never had any subsequent issues removing wheel bolts

 

Indeed, it's rapidly becoming a pet hate people that don't put a little grease on things like wheel bolt threads...

[dee205 3]

I always use a little skin of it. It's an anti sieze grease so that's what it's designed for. As Tom says, you should always clean any dirt/rust off first. I find brake cleaner and a fine wire brush does the job.

[welshpug 1,657]

I always do, torque wrench every time as well

 

 

depends on the quality of the bolts, have experiendced some non pug ones with poor plating that were buggers even though they weren't over tightened when I'd last worked on the vehicle.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Perhaps on this occasion then it's just too much dried in crap in the threads, both on the bolts and in the hubs.

 

I'll have to give them a ruddy good clean up.

[SurGie 54]

I also put some on the alloy where it meets the hub, because the alloy starts to degrade/rust from the steel hub/brake disk. This also can make them stick to the steel disk.

[HERMAN 33]

We were told on a torque tightening course at work that if oils or greases are added to a thread that the torque loading will be changed on the threads as this lubricates the parts that torque wrench is working with. There for we have dry torque settings and wet settings. Just be careful that you dont go mad as copper slip will increase the loads on the bolts for the same amount of torque applied.

I belive that copper slip has a bigger effect on this than oil or grease. It is nearly as bad as bolts coated in lanoline.

I will have a look for my notes at work tomorrow.

Neil

[Strictly_Derv 34]

I have always done it with copper grease but I did it at my old job at a garage once and I was told never to use it as it can cause bolts to come loose... And I was told at college to always use it prevent seizing.

The garage just told me to use normal grease

[smithy 1]

I was told at college and work not to use any lube on wheel bolts,just to make sure threads are clean and they are properly torqued.

 

I do use some spray aluminium anti seize on the hub flange due to dissimilar metals causing corrosion,never had any issues removing them.

[kyepan 291]

after taking the suspension apart for the second time, everything that could get stuck got copper grease on it, as long as it's torqued correctly it will be fine.

[SurGie 54]

I have always done it with copper grease but I did it at my old job at a garage once and I was told never to use it as it can cause bolts to come loose... And I was told at college to always use it prevent seizing.

The garage just told me to use normal grease

 

 

Its funny you say that because i used some copper grease fitting my SL 434's on my 6 and a few months later the NS front wheel came off They were all torqued up correctly and was quite surprised it happened tbh. I was lucky i was going slow at the time it happened. Now i have to keep checking the bolts in case another set start wanting to go

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Bet you cried when the sl434 come off

[SurGie 54]

Well the alloy got stuck inside the wing and only got scrapped on the inside by the caliper, i would normally go mad but i just saw it as luck, i was about to go onto a bypass and it could have been soo much worse

 

Even though the alloy got scrapped inside the steering and wheel balancing was all fine.

[GLPoomobile 958]

I'm actually very surprised you didn't know the bolts were working loose. I've had it happen twice (my own fault both times), once on my old Civic and recently on the Alfa, and it was very obvious something was amiss long before it got anywhere near to me losing a wheel.

[SurGie 54]

When i was going 30 in a 30 the steering wheel suddenly started to get really wobbly and the top mounts need replacing at that time, so i initially thought it was them. However i decided to slow down using the engine by then and was going about 15 mph then it suddenly stopped and skidded when the alloy came off.

 

It makes you think, maybe using the copper grease was the cause of it.

Edited August 19, 2011 by SurGie

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Or you forgot to tighten the wheel up

[SurGie 54]

But if that was the cause it would have happened months ago, the alloys have been on for about a year now

[welshpug 1,657]

someone probably tried to half inch them then.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Me

 

Do you use locking wheel bolts on them...

Edited August 19, 2011 by Paul_13

[Rippthrough 98]

We were told on a torque tightening course at work that if oils or greases are added to a thread that the torque loading will be changed on the threads as this lubricates the parts that torque wrench is working with. There for we have dry torque settings and wet settings. Just be careful that you dont go mad as copper slip will increase the loads on the bolts for the same amount of torque applied.

I belive that copper slip has a bigger effect on this than oil or grease. It is nearly as bad as bolts coated in lanoline.

I will have a look for my notes at work tomorrow.

Neil

 

It does, but then so does years of caked on rust and dirt. Less prevailing torque is better as far as hand tightening is concerned, especially when doing it by feel (yes, we shouldn't, we all do though )

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

I also put some on the alloy where it meets the hub, because the alloy starts to degrade/rust from the steel hub/brake disk. This also can make them stick to the steel disk.

 

Doesn't copperslip cause the alloys to oxidize though?

[SurGie 54]

someone probably tried to half inch them then.

 

 

Yeah we all thought it could only be that at the time even though its not left on the street, its in a garage but had been left a week before for an hour or so

 

Locking nuts will be bought very soon, i already found a decent set i can get for them.

[woodymi16 24 2 Cars]

Just to add my thoughts to the discussion, the torque loading is felt between the the face of the wheel nut and the mating face of the wheel. Apply the lubricant to the threaded parts only and you should not have any problems. If the wheels are old and the paint finish is flaking it is possible that in time the wheel nuts may loose some of the applied torque loading. Also, the nut is made of steel and the wheel is alloy, the mating faces may then suffer from dissimilar metal corrosion. The reality is we all periodically have the wheels off our cars for normal maintenance etc and would therefore see any issues in good time.

[bobdylan_55 1]

was taught on a motorsport engineering degree level course that copper slip on wheel bolts is a bad idea. Another uni not far from us actually got slatted by imeche iirc for teaching to put copper slip on. Our lecturer always said though that it could cause a wheel bolt to come loose over time and especially in hard driven cars with large vibrations. If the wheel bolts are hard to get in /out, run a tap through the thread to clean it up, and torque it up properly and you wont have any problems