Horrific Brake Judder (Danger)

[309jazzpanda 41]

Got a 1993 205 gtx. so its a 1.4 with single point. right for some time been getting an awful judder on the o/s/r brake, it's on drums and since it stated i have had, new drums, new shoes, new cylinders and checked the backing plate to make sure its straight. Now its not wheels or balance as you still get a bind with the wheels off. I'm thinking poss stub axle as it has got a bit of negative camber to it. Now AB motorsport do a stub axle that is 95mm long for drums but they're not sure whether my 1.4 will be the same. So big ask does anyone know the length of a 1.4 stub axle??.

 

Also while i'm on here do you know whether the 1400 master cylinder willl fit on a 1.9 servo? its just they are a bit wooden at the pedal to be honest and with the engine off the brakes till feel the ame but i got no air leaks so i think it might just need uprating a bit.

[pug_ham 243 3 Cars]

What kind of condition are;

 

• The rear beam, ie; has it ever been refurbished?
• The beam mounts, front & rear
• The rear shocks in including bushes?

g

[smithy 1]

As Graham says above check condition of beam sounds to me like you have got some wear in it.

 

Also brakes don't sound like they need uprating just the servo is faulty,don't see why a 1.9 won't fit personally as they all look the same to me me but best thing is compare some at a scrapper before buying one.

[309jazzpanda 41]

well barnd new mounts on the rear beam with brand new shocks, had to change the rear beam as my old one had seized, only thing is i dont know its history seemed straight to the eye and didn't have movement/play at the bearings. When it in the rollers with handbrake on 2 clicks the car moves up and down literally moving its suspension the judder is that bad. its driving me mad but i don't have the old axle to throw back on to compare but can't say i'd noticed it when i first fitted the axle. ready to get all basil fawlty on it soon

[Anthony 1,002]

You mention stub axles - typically these get bent when the car is whacked against a curb or similar, and usually give positive camber, often with some very odd toe.

 

Negative camber is almost always the beam bearing/shafts failing.

 

That said, a bent stub axle would get the drum to run out of true with the shoes and backplate, although whether this would cause the level of judder you describe I couldn't say - my suspicion is that it would merely bind and/or give lower brake effort, rather than a violent juddering.

 

With the car jacked up and turning the wheel by hand, does the wheel rotate smoothly and gradually become harder to turn, consistant through the full rotation of the wheel, as the footbrake or handbrake is applied - or does it feel notchy and uneven even then? Is there any play in either the wheel bearing, or between the trailing arm and the beam tube?

[pug_ham 243 3 Cars]

When it in the rollers with handbrake on 2 clicks the car moves up and down literally moving its suspension the judder is that bad.

What rear shocks have you got fitted because if it judders so badly the arm moves & the shocks can't control it there is definately something more at fault that just the brakes imo.

 

Only time I've experienced such additional movement has been through either a dead / soft shock or shock bush.

 

g

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi,

when I was a lad brake judder was inevitably either due to bad run out (on discs) or ovalled drums.

Dave

 

 

 

[pug_ham 243 3 Cars]

when I was a lad brake judder was inevitably either due to bad run out (on discs) or ovalled drums.

Although not unheard of the op states they are new drums recently.

 

g

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Although not unheard of the op states they are new drums recently.

 

g

Oops - should have read from beginning - sorry.

Edited August 17, 2011 by dch1950

[309jazzpanda 41]

they're sachs shock absorbers, don't think they're the problem though managed get it on th eramp on wednesday discovered the os handbrake cable has a weak spring and doesn't return the handbrake lever, so wound the shoe adjuster down just so i can drive the thing. New cable pay day me thinks, tested my rear axle and it semms the o/s needs new bearings in.

Also not sure if it son here or a 306 forum but i've seen somewhere a step by step picture guide to rebuilding the rear beam.

[pug_ham 243 3 Cars]

There is a guide to rebuilding the 205 / 309 rear beam on the main website in the articles section by Wurzel.

 

g

[309jazzpanda 41]

Thanks guy's, gonna get a cable ordered on friday then wind the brakes back up to a level where they work ha ha, fingers crossed the old girl should be back to normal

[309jazzpanda 41]

Wel new cables fitted and as imagined still the same, though not as severe as it was. gonna have to rebuild the beam on payday as its really squeaking now, i've seeen the kit on e bay £190 with two trailing arms and all bearings and seals, any good?. Really wanna sort this now as its getting scary got a balance now on the adjustment where there's no judder but the brakes are ruddy shocking.

Gonna try keep this thread going as when you search brake juudder on here, no one finishes any of the threads with an anwser of what cured the fault.

[smithy 1]

personally i would strip the beam before shelling out £190 on parts just in case the tube is knackered,if it is you would be better off buying a rebuilt beam.

I do know a place that will recondition tubes and shafts by re metalling,milling to tolerance and case hardening but they are a fair old way from stoke.

[welshpug 1,646]

Its not a bad price these days as its getting harder to find shafts at the prices they used to be (£45 from GSF not so long ago!)

 

Regardless of whether your tube is usable I'd go that way anyway, just source a crossmember tube if you need one, no need to pay someone to do it if you think you are capable enough to do it yourself, eve if you dont have a press but have someone who can sort that for you you'll save a fair bit of cash.

 

Just make sure its all put together properly regarding the seal clearances etc.