309 Gtis ?

[u47sb2 27 2 Cars]

I know from recent discussions here that there aren't many left, and rust may be an issue. But I've spotted a miami blue 5 door relatively nearby to me and am very tempted. Good or daft idea? Any 309 specific problems or quirks to watch out for?

 

and does anyone know how many 309 GTIs were made in miami blue?

Edited July 31, 2011 by u47sb2

[CosKev 16]

I know from recent discussions here that there aren't many left, and rust may be an issue. But I've spotted a miami blue 5 door relatively nearby to me and am very tempted. Good or daft idea? Any 309 specific problems or quirks to watch out for?

 

and does anyone know how many 309 GTIs were made in miami blue?

 

Rust IS the 309 killer.

 

Its the main thing to check for when viewing,inner sills infront of the rear wheels next to the fuel tank,rear panel if you open the boot and look down below the boot catch,

inner wings on seams,rear bumper side mounts,panels in the front arch area where the wing/mudflaps bolt on,front panel is common too,but hard to view with bumper fitted,rear wheel arch inner area(above the beam if you look from the side),area around rear bump stops,also on the 5 doors they rot badly along the door steps on the rear door area.

[blue_haddock 2]

Rust IS the 309 killer.

 

Its the main thing to check for when viewing,inner sills infront of the rear wheels next to the fuel tank,rear panel if you open the boot and look down below the boot catch,

inner wings on seams,rear bumper side mounts,panels in the front arch area where the wing/mudflaps bolt on,front panel is common too,but hard to view with bumper fitted,rear wheel arch inner area(above the beam if you look from the side),area around rear bump stops,also on the 5 doors they rot badly along the door steps on the rear door area.

 

but other than that their great!

[dave_gti 0]

Do 309s rot more than 205s? I hadn’t really thought about it until I read this thread but I see quite a few 205s driving about, I cant remember the last time I saw a 309. Or were there less 309s made?

[u47sb2 27 2 Cars]

Thanks for the rust tips. I know there are only just over 100 309 GTIs taxed and a few more Goodwood versions taxed so a lot rarer than 205s but despite searching can't find figures or numbers produced.

[Sandy 191]

Rust is only really a problem with the later metallic cars in the areas that weren't properly laquered. Miami blue sadly may be one of them. About the only reason there are still so many on the road (compared to contemporary Escorts/Astras/Rovers etc that sold in much bigger numbers), is because they don't rust! The corrosion protection was exceptionally good on the whole and typically better than equivalent 205s in my experience. Brake pipes are the most popular reason I've seen for MOT fail and scrap.

[Fox 3]

Mines rusty

 

 

 

Sills are shot too

[Iain-gti 6]

Rust IS the 309 killer.

 

Its the main thing to check for when viewing,inner sills infront of the rear wheels next to the fuel tank,rear panel if you open the boot and look down below the boot catch,

inner wings on seams,rear bumper side mounts,panels in the front arch area where the wing/mudflaps bolt on,front panel is common too,but hard to view with bumper fitted,rear wheel arch inner area(above the beam if you look from the side),area around rear bump stops,also on the 5 doors they rot badly along the door steps on the rear door area.

 

 

so pretty much everywhere lol

[damien 22 1 Cars]

must be worth saving afew tho

[CosKev 16]

Rust is only really a problem with the later metallic cars in the areas that weren't properly laquered. Miami blue sadly may be one of them. About the only reason there are still so many on the road (compared to contemporary Escorts/Astras/Rovers etc that sold in much bigger numbers), is because they don't rust! The corrosion protection was exceptionally good on the whole and typically better than equivalent 205s in my experience. Brake pipes are the most popular reason I've seen for MOT fail and scrap.

 

Don't agree soz.

Nowt to do with metallic paint where the 309's rot that kills them.

The external panels don't rot/rust too bad,its the underside.

The crap pug seam sealer/stone chip does not seem to have adhered to the vehicle body,lets water in behind it and they rot away under the stone chip.

[jeremy 70]

My 309 Goodwood is generally 99% rot free, just a shame it has sat on my drive with no engine/box in it for nearly 16 months lol!!!!

[Sandy 191]

Don't agree soz.

Nowt to do with metallic paint where the 309's rot that kills them.

The external panels don't rot/rust too bad,its the underside.

The crap pug seam sealer/stone chip does not seem to have adhered to the vehicle body,lets water in behind it and they rot away under the stone chip.

 

The sealer is well stuck to start with, it's only once the moisture gets behind it and can't escape, that temp changes and capillary action force it off. The metallic cars are unlacquered in crucial vulnerable areas, the base coat metallic being very thin or non-existant in those areas and hence providing inadequate resistance to moisture penetration. Non-metallic (especially earlier) cars, tended to have alot more paint on them inside and underneath (I've had quite alot of 309s, this is based on my experience!) Unlaquered metallic isn't very moisture resistant, much less than non-met paint, the crux of the problem.

 

How well the car has been kept through its life has a huge effect on these problems, leaving caked mud, dirt and growth un-attended is a major factor. As I said before, 309s compare very, very well in terms of rust resistance compared to their competition from the era and the fact that so many remain, especially very early cars (25 years old now), is testament to that.

[van cleef 0]

The car your seeing near you at Aberdeenshire? If it is ,it's my old one which I sold to make way for my Toniq R.

[Anthony 1,003]

For the most part, I agree with Sandy.

 

Compared to the vast majority of cars from that era, a 309 is extremely rust-resistant. Take one look at a typical Ford from that era, or worse still something Italian - if you can even find one left - and chances are that it will be in a lot worse condition structurally and there will be far more rust present, and previous rust repairs. Remember that what many/most of us would call a rotten example that's not worth bothering with, that would be considered in good condition to owners of other marques - go onto a Ford forum and see the utter basket cases that some of them are restoring if you want proof of that.

 

I'd certainly hazard a guess that the percentage of 309's scrapped due to rust is very low. Most I would guess died either because their value meant they weren't economical to repair, or because in the case of GTi's, they were worth far more in pieces - witness the number of 309 GTi's that have been broken up on here over the years for example. Ultimately, there's so few left in my eyes because they were never sought after and thus worth much money, not because they crumbled away at the first hint of moisture.

 

The one point that I'd disagree with is that they're better protected than 205's, because from what I've seen at least, that just isn't the case. Whilst it is becoming more of an issue now, a few years ago it was still rare to find 205's with significant/notable rust unless they'd been crashed and poorly repaired, whereas even then you pretty much knew that you were likely to need to get the welder out when you dropped the fuel tank on a 309, and you had to carefully inspect a good few areas because rust was an issue. 205's on the other hand seem to be remarkable frankly, and would be good even by today's (thankfully) much higher standards of rust protection - certainly it would seem that Ford and Mercedes could learn a lot!

 

Certainly I'd love another 309 GTi, and I still morn the loss of my ideal one I'd just finished getting back on the road - a late Ming Blue 3dr - in the floods of 2007

[Choppered 0]

I have to agree about rust issues with 309 as i have 5 and have come across quite a bit in the usual places that have been mentioned from this i have noticed that what has started the rust is areas when panels have been spotwelded together which has burnt away the gavanising so leaving it prone to rusting but phase 1 cars are loads better for not rusting as bad there are also a few other advantages of phase 1's like gloveboxs dont break like the phase 2. Also no matter what phase you have you can pretty much quarantee the front fogs will be shot and these can be expensive to replace. I dont know weather 309s will rise in value (I hope they do) as there are loads less that 205s if you look on www.howmanyleft.co.uk

[24seven 104]

Almost literally THE only spot of rust on my 309 is just in-front of the O/S/R wheel arch by the fuel tank, which unfortunately is bad enough to have required welding twice. There's a small patch about the size of a 10p coin just below the tailgate above the rear bumper and a little more along the bottom of the driver's door, and that's it! I still can't believe just how little rust there is on it after 21 years. I was under the impression that the reason there are relatively few of them on the road compared to 205's is because they're less popular, which is understandable given that they're not nearly as good looking. Definitely feels better on the road than a 205 though...

[Flozman 4]

I am on the hunt for one guys, but whats the deal with the all being way up north? Im not traveling 300+ miles only to find its beyond saving!!!

 

Please, please help me someone

[CosKev 16]

Almost literally THE only spot of rust on my 309 is just in-front of the O/S/R wheel arch by the fuel tank, which unfortunately is bad enough to have required welding twice. There's a small patch about the size of a 10p coin just below the tailgate above the rear bumper and a little more along the bottom of the driver's door, and that's it! I still can't believe just how little rust there is on it after 21 years. I was under the impression that the reason there are relatively few of them on the road compared to 205's is because they're less popular, which is understandable given that they're not nearly as good looking. Definitely feels better on the road than a 205 though...

 

Have you had the front bumper off it?

 

99% sure I could poke holes in it and pull the rear bumper side mounts off with abit of effort!!!!!!!!

[Anthony 1,003]

That, and have you actually dropped the fuel tank out to see what is hiding behind it?

 

It's generally not a case of whether there will be rust, but rather how much you're going to have to cut out and weld fresh metal in its place...

[24seven 104]

I've not had the tank out, but it's all solid under the carpets and seats, and behind the front bumper is spotless, bar where the towing eye was torn off when a mate dumped the clutch towing me up hill (not due to rust, was completely fresh metal where it had come off).

[hillbilly 3]

All cars rust

[Brian M 0]

I know the one you're looking at, is that the one in Aberdeenshire? It appears to have been well looked after. I have a Miami Blue 3dr and can safely say that there's probably no more than 4 or 5 3dr models that I know of, maybe less still in 5dr variants? However, Miami blue 309's are popular in left hand drive.

 

They are prone to rot on the inner sills behind the fuel tank as mentioned, on the arches as well on the foot-well side - the idea of mud sticking to them and not being cleaned well is the ideal cause of this though, The strut top mounts can be bad, but generally speaking aren't too bad. The inner wings and the front panels can be bad too, but these are things that are difficult to see!

 

Other than that just do the usual bounce the rear of the car up n down to ensure the beam's not seized and is still plentifully springy. The glove box lid clips were known for being flimsy and not many examples still have lids that are undamaged and fully operational. Usual pug things like fuel gauge not reading right might come into play too. There's a good wee 309 buyer's guide over on 309oc by Jord294, which could be useful to print off and take with you.

 

If i had the time and lived a bit closer I'd have happily helped you look over it! Pity!

Edited August 21, 2011 by Brian M