Recomend Me A Box Please

[kentish_lad 0]

hay all ....... im a compleet neewbie to 205s and im just converting an xs to gti spec. i have an engine and subframe and lark but unsure what box i would like , now i have read through pages and pages on here but the terms "be1" and the like means nothing to me (atm ). Now i do quite a few motoway miles but dont wont anythink too geared up as i dnt wonna loose b road fun ( as this is what the car is made for ), any advice on what box and things i need to go with them eg linkages and pedal boxes and cables would grately be apreciated thanks all Aaron x

[rallyeash 155]

be1 box is the earlier type with lift up revers next to first.

 

i'd say go for a 1.9 BE3 box, (unless you've got a 1600 engine then i'd stick with a 1600 box)so the later reverse next to forth type box, or maybe an mi16 box which has a longer fith gear. not sure how well it would work on a a 8v engine though...

 

you will need on you XS, 205 BE3 gti gear rods x3, gear lever from gearstick to subframe, gti subframe, be3 clutch cable, pretty much take a gti front end and bolt it up onto your XS...

[kentish_lad 0]

thanks rallyeash ill start colecting bits i like the sound of the longer fith of the mi box ........has any body tried and been successful with this mated to an 8v ??

[large 33]

1st question is what engine are you running?

 

I would go for a 1.6 box if you are running a 1.6 OR a 1.9 8v as I find this makes the car a lot more fun to drive. I know it will rev a little higher on the motorway but I think it is worth the trade off.

[rallyeash 155]

i got annoyed with my 1600 box at cruising speed

[Baz 421]

I don't, but i get annoyed with the fact that the 1.9 box is far too long.

[Anthony 1,003]

As has been said, what engine are you running?

 

If it's a 1.6 GTi engine then I'd stick with a 1.6 GTi gearbox. It's short gearing isn't ideal on the motorway (although equally isn't terrible - I was doing over 20k/year in mine mostly up and down the M4!) but it matches the engine very well, as the comparitive lack of torque and rev happy nature means a short geared box with closish ratios. Long gearing on a 1.6 GTi just makes it feel flat and lifeless.

 

If it's a 1.9 GTi engine, then I'd probably say stick with the 1.9 GTi gearbox if you're doing alot of motorway miles, or maybe something like an Mi16 'box for a compromise of shortish lower gears and still a longish 4th and 5th for cruising.

 

BE1 and BE3 refer to different ages of gearbox, BE1 being the earlier setup found on pre-1990 cars and BE3 being found on 1990-onwards models. Given a free choice on a car that I was converting and thus a blank canvas, I'd go BE3 everytime thanks to the far nicer clutch feel/activation, plus the fact that some BE1 parts are starting to get quite scarce owing to their age and increasing rarity.

[rallyeash 155]

I don't, but i get annoyed with the fact that the 1.9 box is far too long.

 

 

just need extra power to overcome it

[Baz 421]

Yeah because we all need to do 140mph+ don't we...

[rallyeash 155]

ap-sa-fookin-lutly

[kentish_lad 0]

sorry guys i did mean to mention that its a 1.9, and im probably going to be running in on twin 40's with minor head work and a slightly agressive cam no specs yet as im still only collecting parts

 

it would now seem that im stuck between a 1.9 box and the mi item i supose its going to come down to price and whats avaliable right now

 

and just out of intrest which box has the least issues , which is the strongest , which is easeyer to work on and get parts for and finaly which one weighs the most these are all the deciding factors that i should reali be looking at thanks for all your help and hope to see some of you soon at pugfest next year ..........i should all be done buy then LOL

[Anthony 1,003]

Ignoring something like a GTi-6 box, all the BE3 gearboxes are about the same strength - there's slight differences on later mid-90's ones, but to it's much of a muchness. No difference at all in terms of working on them, weight or anything else, as they're all the same just with differing ratios and final drives. Non-205/309 gearboxes (eg Mi16 box) will need a selector arm swapping, but that's easy enough and shouldn't influence your decision, and later (again, mid-90's onwards) will need the diff swapping for a 205/309 one - again, simple enough.

 

I will depend on how big a cam you're putting in I think - basically, hotter cam will (as a big generalisation) typically mean more top-end at the expense of low-end delivery, and this will typically benefit more from a shorter, closer ratio gearbox making it easier to keep the engine spinning and on the boil. Depends by what you're calling "slightly agressive" though - something like a Kent PT36 / Piper BP270 is hardly worth worrying about, whereas something more in the 285-290 duration bracket will warrant consideration of a shorter box.

 

All IMO of course.

 

Also, worth remembering that whilst a bit of a ballache removing and refitting, it's not that hard to swap a 'box at a later date if you decide that it's ill-suited.

 

Another option is a GTi-6 box - the ratios are very good and would suit your application very well, but the limitations of right hand steering lock can be a pain and certainly bad enough that I won't run one, despite the ratios being perfect for what I want. It's bad enough that U-turns on mini-roundabouts are pretty much a no-no and even multi-story car parks can require a little forethought, but that may or may not be an issue for you.

 

With all this though, a search will reveal plenty as it's a subject that has come up numerous times

[kentish_lad 0]

anthony you have been a massive help and im truely grateful, with your help i have decided to run the std 1.9 box and if im not getting on with it or its doesent work for me then the mi box will be going in . im hoping to have the whole conversion done before september off to get the engine and subframe tomorrow then its just a case of welding in the enigine mount and bolting it all up ............photos on the way

[Artemide 1]

Hi,

 

Thought this topic could be used some more.

I have a 205 mi16 and my clutched exploded recently. That means I´m gonna have to strip the gearbox off the engine and while doing so, I thought it would be wise to update my gear ratios. Currently I am using the mi16 4x4 gearbox (without the 4x4 system). I also have the original 1.9 gti gearbox to use. My aim is to get the maximum acceleration up to 60 and that the 5th gear in ~70 mph would use as low revs as possible.

What gearboxes do I need for such a gearbox conversion and on which cits and peugs can these be found?

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Mi16 box with a 1.9 final drive would give you a 1.9 1,2&3 and a longer 4&5 with 70mph in 5th being about 3,200 RPM.

[205Mi16Mick 1]

Currently I am building a 1.9 box with the 4.43 mi16 FD and a (standard, non 4x4, mi16) 5th gear. I would have thought that this combo will give the best acceleration (up to 5th) because of the higher diff ratio?

 

This is a really good link if you haven't come across it yet: http://www.taylor-en...-405gearing.htm.

 

Regards,

Michael

[205Mi16Mick 1]

And this link is also very useful: http://www.rallyparts.co.uk/cwp_change/

 

If you download one of the excel sheets linked to from this page it has a neat function which allows you to select your FD and gear ratios and then it will calculate the RPM etc. for each gear.

[petert 588]

Thanks Michael, I'm glad you like my spreadsheet. However, I've built what you've suggested before and it isn't very nice. First to fourth is awesome, but then there's a huge gap into 5th. It's quite demoralizing when you're in twisty mountain stuff. It definitely spoils the moment.

 

ie

4th 1.069:1

5th 0.757:1

Difference 29%

 

My advice would be to find a 0.81:1 5th. These were fitted to Mi16x4 and some diesels.

 

ie

4th 1.069:1

5th 0.81:1

Difference 24%

Edited October 2, 2012 by petert

[petert 588]

Currently I am using the mi16 4x4 gearbox (without the 4x4 system).

 

How did you get the speedo housing to attach to the Mi16x4 case?

[205Mi16Mick 1]

Thanks Peter. Would a 1995 SRDT have the 0.81:1 5th? The other thing is this - how hard is it to change 5th gear with the gearbox in situ?

 

Artemide, you have all the bits you need to build the box Peter describes.

 

Regards,

Michael

[Artemide 1]

How did you get the speedo housing to attach to the Mi16x4 case?

 

The 4x4 system is bolt-on removable from the gearbox and after that the box looks spot on like the 1.9 gti´s. So the speedo cable attaches the same way as it does to the original box.

[Artemide 1]

Artemide, you have all the bits you need to build the box Peter describes.

 

 

You´re saying that I should take 1,2,3 gears from 1.9 gti´s box and install them to mi16x4 box? Or Should I take the 4,5th from mi16x4 and install them into gti box?

[petert 588]

1,2,3,4 from 205 GTi and 5th from Mi16x4.

 

You can't separate 3 and 4, unless with a hacksaw.

[Artemide 1]

1,2,3,4 from 205 GTi and 5th from Mi16x4.

 

You can't separate 3 and 4, unless with a hacksaw.

 

But into which gearbox? mi or gti. And does the 5th ratio change somehow then? Because currently the 5th on mi16 was like ~4000 or more rpm in 70 mph

[205Mi16Mick 1]

Into the Mi16 box. 5th won't change if you use the mi16 box.

 

You want the Mi16 final drive if you want extreme acceleration. But if you want extreme acceleration and low cruising revs as well you end up with a terrible 4th to 5th gap - see what Peter said here: http://forum.205gtid...dpost&p=1301566

 

Maybe a good compromise between the two for you would be to put a stock standard mi16 box in? You'd get something like 3200rpm at 70mph.

Edited October 5, 2012 by 205Mi16Mick