[engine_work] White 205 Gti6 Conversion

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I have decided to dedicate a thread to my conversion. I know these conversions are common now, but I want my build progress in one place for reference.

 

I hope to put everything I do in here so that it is a comprehensive guide to what is needed. I have been researching for a good while about what is required, and how things are done, but all of that is snippets from different threads, I have yet to find everything in one place. So this will be a leymans terms thread.

 

Another reason being I never have the patience to stick to idea's, and have suprised a few friends who think I will give up before it is finished. If I am spending this much on it, I may aswell have a build thread to show for it

 

I can be a bit anal, which is usually why I give up on things as if it isn't how I imagine it in my mind, then it isn't right.

 

I'm certainly not spending silly money like some people do, but I am also not going to cut corners like others.

 

A bit of background:

I used to own a 306 GTi6 years ago which I was pleased with, I would like another, but finding a decent one that doesn't need lots of little bits isn't easy, and as I have had a good one, I don't think I would ever be happy with it. A rallye is still something on the back burner, I would like one in the future. I started looking for a 205 GTi as a weekend car, but struggled to find a good one for my budget. My budget wasn't small, but what I would have needed to pay was too much for the use I would have got from it. To of been happy, I would have had to get a high end example, and felt that it owed me more than I could justify.

 

I then broke a few GTi6's, and realised a lot of people were after the engines for 205s. This interested me and I kept a couple of lumps asside and a selection of parts that I could use for a 205.

 

The next struggle would be finding a good base to convert. I was effectively going to be potentially ripping a good 1.9 apart, and paying a premium for the base. I decided the only way I would be able to get a base car was to either buy a cheap 1.6 but have to change hubs and rear beam etc. I decided it had to be a 1.9. Being a bit sad, I thought it would be a shame to rip a good 1.9 apart to be left with effectively the shell that I needed. I had then written my criteria, what I had realised I needed was a high mileage 1.9, something with a good body, but worth less due to the high mileage engine which I wouldn't keep anyway.

 

After a bit of searching, getting distracted, thinking I was looking for the impossible, I came across the perfect base on evening. A 1.9 which needed engine work. It sounded Ideal. It was on Ebay, and was ending a few days later. I was working away in London the next morning, so I had no time to go and view, even though the car was only 45 mins away. I rang the owner and had a good chat about the car, he was very open and honest about the car and sounded very genuine. He was even as entusiastic as me about giving the car a new lease of life. I hate the idea of buying blind but I decided to keep my eye on Ebay on my phone the coming few days and pop a bid in and hope to win. All without viewing, risky, but I had faith in it.

 

My work trip in London was cut short, and was home a couple of days early. I arranged to go and see th car before the auction ended. Being so close, and having the chance, it was silly not to. I saw the car and immediately knew it was a winner. The engine failure was not an issue for me, but would hopefully put potential buyers off. As long as the body was good, that was all I was worried about. The guy was more than helpful, very genuine and the car itself was all that I expected it to be, there is a small bit of welding needed in the front inner arch, but other than that it is clean in the body and the interior is the best I have seen. 100% original apart from a K&N filter. As I previously discussed on the phone originally with the guy, I knew he wouldn't end the auction early as there were bids on the vehicle. I said while walking around the car 'I really wish this was on Pistonheads or similar, I would have bought it now' The owner said to make him an offer and he would! I was amazed. Proves that going to see a car and making the right noises opposed to offering money over the phone with no substance. We agreed on a price and then it was removed from the auction.

 

All I had to do now was arrange collection, as it had half the engine in the boot! A friend of mine with a car trailer was servicing his trailer and had tyres removed, so I was worried it wouldn't be ready in time for me to go back and collect. Thankfully he pulled the stops out and got tyres fitted to some old wheels and had the trailer back on the road for me. He has a tow car, so I arranged to go back and collect.

 

The day came, to go and collect the car. I had a shell to get rid of to make space for the 205 at my house, so he came to remove that at the same time. His Mondeo estate tow car has an aftermarket detachable tow bar, which when fitted, snapped the locking pin as soon as the trailer was pulled away. There I was with a shell ready to go and a guy expecting me to get the 205. All my bad luck had come at once! Luckily I know someone with a land rover who took me down to get the 205 that evening, and he saved the day. I was worried someone else would make a better offer, or after letting him down he would refund the deposit and I would be back on the hunt

 

So to start here is the 205 1.9 GTi which I bought

 

 

 

 

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

The first thing I wanted to do was remove the loom to send off to Spiky to get mated to my GTi6 engine loom.

 

I had a right mare with this as I had no idea really what I was trying to achieve. Eventually when I realised what the actual aim was it was straight forwards. So because of this, I took a few photos for others that may be a bit puzzled in the future to show exactly what you have to do.

 

The plugs where the 205 engine loom meets the main harness is under the dash in the drivers side on the left:

 

 

You can see the two plugs wiring continues up to the top of the dash and back down to the ECU and Tacho relay.

 

 

Unplug both of these. You then can either cut and pull the wires back down, or leave the plugs on the end and feed the lot through. I decided to keep the loom 100% in tact, then I knew there was no chance I could cut it wrong

 

You then will want to undo the dash so you can pull it forwards slightly to get behind to release the loom. Since doing it, I think there is a small chance if you know what you are feeling for you can do it without moving the dash at all. For reference, to undo the dash you will need to remove the wiper arms and scuttle panel. There are 2 10mm nuts to undo. On the inside, there is a nut each side of the dash at the top when you look under and in. Lastly, there is one bolt in the centre of the dash, which you will have to remove a few panels to get to. Then you can pull it forward to the top of the steering column and get your head in and asess the situation.

 

The picture below is of the wiring going up the dash on the right hand side. There is a cable tie, and the loom is hooked over some tabs. You will need to be carefull when pulling the ECU plug through as it is quite large and there isn't a huge amount of room to poke it through. If you are caefull and not heavy handed it is easily done.

 

 

Then when you have carefully poked the plugs through the gaps in the back of the dash you will be left with the following

 

 

Then all you need to do is poke the whole lot through the bulkhead.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I then needed to turn my attention to the lump I was going to be putting into the car. I had 3 at home to choose from. But decided to go for a low mileage engine I had running for a while that I knew was quiet and had decent history. I used the other 2 engine for the best parts to make a decent one.

 

Unfortunately the chosen block was a bit oily, I think I may be right in saying it is from the sensor, possibly the seal weeping, or could just be road grime and a loose oil filter, no sure.

 

 

I bought some gunk degreaser for the job, but didn't find it overly effective. Brake cleaner as a late thought did the trick very well. Wish I had just gone with it from the start!

 

After

 

 

 

Got the engine mounted on the engine crane mouting. I initially used alternator bolts, but the thread was only going in this deep

 

 

People told me this was probably enough. But the thought of having and engine up on the stand for a while fully built up made me a bit cautious. Luckily I managed to get some bolts a bit longer, the perfect length to go the full depth.

 

Next was to get it on the stand. I was initially going to use my crane to lift it up and on, but it was stored away and I thought I was rocky and able to lift it up

 

I soon realised two of us wouldn't be able to lift it that high acurately, and I like my toes. Still didn't want to dig the crane out as we had got this far, so managed to lift it most the way with a jack and the last few inches by hand. If the jack had slipped. My feet would be seen better days.

 

 

All ready waiting to be painted and have the cambelt done. I'm not doing that myself as I like the piece of mind from getting someone in to do it who knows how tight a belt should actually be.

[dcc 855]

Be careful if you intend on removing the cambelt! The lower pulley has rubber inside, which suffers fatigue and allows the timing hole to move, rendering the pulley useless for timing purposes. most people time the engine up using the solid 8v pulley then fit the broken 16v pulley back on once its all done. also, as you will find out, the engine will sit very close to the master cylinder/brake servo, so a solid(rubber) lower mount, something like a BBM one is almost essential in the conversion, reducing the risk of fouling when hooning the car. the blocks also dont have oil pressure switch fitted, miles sells an adaptor for this allowing you to run the 8v pressure switch (looks like a massive mushroom, on the front of the 8v block) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350462926052 .

 

The project looks perfect all in all! I am sure others will agree, thats a minty looking 205

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Thanks for the info dcc. I have another crank pulley that will be fitted when the new belt goes on.

 

I was advised about the lower mount saving the risk of the cam cover hitting the master cylinder, so that is on my list of purchases. I have a couple of things I need to get from miles, fuel banjo and the adapter is all I can think of for the mo.

 

It is not a bad base really. There is a bit of rust in the engine bay that has been repaired very poorly in the past. It covered the hole, but the rust itself wasn't treated so the new plate has now failed. I will probably blast the engine bay and see what else comes up. I don't intend to build this up and then have to remove things again to sort them after if they could have been done before. The lower mount is an example. Much easier to do when the engine is on the stand than to do down the line and remove the shafts and do it under the car. I hope to find other pointers that can save me time and headaches.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

The engine is now removed.

 

I am taking the car to my father in laws house to keep it there for a while and to blast the engine bay and have a plate welded on the inner wing. The blasting isn't really needed, but the facilities are there, and it allows me to see if the rest of the surface rust is just what it seems. The plate isn't strictly needed either, but with the engine out it makes sense to get it done now.

 

Everything came apart much much better than I expected it to. Was suprised.

 

 

I tied the shafts up as recommended, and went a bit ott on padding out the subframe. I have had boots split on me in the past due to them leaning or rubbing on something and don't want things like that to hold me up on this.

 

[Masekwm 2]

The exhaust will need modding so you may as well remove it.

[dcc 855]

If you have the car up on stands, then I'd remove the subframe, it will make working from underneath that much easier!

 

Also, before you do anything, take the front lamps out! the number of people who catch them or knock them, and end up smashing the lenses

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

The exhaust will need modding so you may as well remove it.

 

That exhaust is going. Have bought a modified reangled one.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

If you have the car up on stands, then I'd remove the subframe, it will make working from underneath that much easier!

 

Also, before you do anything, take the front lamps out! the number of people who catch them or knock them, and end up smashing the lenses

 

 

I am not going to touch the subframe. I know something will shear if I touch it

 

I have enough room to get the new engine in from above with the rad and that removed and I don't want to take the subframe off unless I have to.

 

Removing lamps is not a bad shout actually. They are only some oversized aftermarket ones, but still, they are corrosion free and would annoy me now if I ignored your advice and broke one

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Sitting nice and low with no engine

 

 

Now he's tucked away with another 80's favourite.

 

 

I like this angle for some reason, just a shame there is an interior in the way

 

Edited August 6, 2011 by chipstick

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

My GTi6 engine had a cambelt not too long ago, but while it was on the stand, for piece of mind I decided to put a new one on anyway for what a kit costs.

 

 

I popped some drill bits in to lock her up

 

 

When bent valves are at risk, I prefer to get it timed up by someone who knows how tight it should be. I could easily lock it up and fit the belt etc, but knowing how tight or not to do it is the key. I had an engine with a nearly new belt that frayed and slipped because it was too tight, so decided to save the risk and get a mechanic friend to do it. In hindsight, as I used the new style tensioner set up, I could have tensioned it myself as there is an indicator on the tensioner

 

All done:

 

 

Power steering is redundant in my car, and obviously the air con has been removed.

 

Used this favourite and a GTi6 tensioner:

 

 

I have another of these tensioners if anyone needs one. I managed to find a long enough M8 bolt (original wont go through the tensioner, let along into the AUX bracket!) in my jars of Peugeot fixings from when I break cars. I like to have a load of spare generic bolts and nuts from when I break Peugeot's.

 

So that is where I am at the moment. Not great progress. But at least the car is away waiting to be blasted and my engine is ready to be painted up and refreshed while it's out and waiting on the stand.

Edited August 17, 2011 by chipstick

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Started stripping the front down to blast the inner arches and battery area

 

 

 

There was a plate welded in the drivers side which I cut out, as it was a bit of a bodge done by a previous owner and was rusting from underneath it.

 

 

The battery tray and chassis leg was quite bad, so wanted to blast it to treat that

 

 

 

How it came up after using some archifine on it

 

 

I was quite pleased with the result. Put some Kurust on the areas between panels where it had crept underneath and I couldn't blast into.

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

Nice work

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I'm a bit behind with this and only have a few weeks until my dealine so need to pull my finger out.

 

Finished blasting the sides of the engine bay and painted with zinc primer:

 

 

 

The above wasn't the worst side, but was initially the only reason I decided to blast the bay. The passenger side was much worse, hidden underneath the washer bottle. Worth catching now when it's pulled away from the inner arch rather than letting it spread.

 

Bit of repitition here from an earlier post, but the results deserve before and afters

 

Here is the worst side when I was finished:

 

 

Before it was blasted:

 

 

How much was taken off with a brief blasting:

 

 

 

In between weekends of getting up and doing the blasting the bay I have been painting some engine bits that I also blasted.

 

 

 

The blasting took all the oxidisation off, and gave a great key for painting. My throttle body was blasted inside gently and is now as clean as a whistle.

 

Masking up properly was a worry. I initially was going to leave the throttle body housing as I thought it would be a pain to mask well, but as everything else is going to be freshly painted, it would let it down.

 

I'm pleased with how it came out.

 

[Eliganza 2]

Looking good pal

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Got rather side tracked again yesterday afternoon. Went out with a couple of jobs in mind, got demotivated and ended up doing something completely different. Something that you don't even see, yet thought it would be a bit rude to ignore while I had the scuttle panel off.

 

 

 

Half and hour of scrubbing with some all purpose cleaner later:

 

 

Completely pointless as I will never see it again once I refit the scuttle, but at least it may prolong the life slightly now the rotten leaves and crud is removed from the corners and the drainage channels are clear.

[jackherer 543]

Completely pointless as I will never see it again once I refit the scuttle, but at least it may prolong the life slightly now the rotten leaves and crud is removed from the corners and the drainage channels are clear.

 

It is worth doing if you want to prevent this: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=120613

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

It is worth doing if you want to prevent this: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=120613

 

 

Well that makes me feel better. There was quite a bit of sludge that was holding water, I was lucky to get to it in time I suppose. I would be suprised if anyone had been under there before and cleaned it. Algea was growing

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Sorted out painting my cam covers.

 

When you get to the stage of painting most parts, you have to do everything otherwise things look dirty next to them

 

I also painted the head and carriers and will pop some pics of them up tomorrow. Got some BZP bolts for most things the eye can see, i'm addicted.

 

[harryskid 193]

Looks like its going to be a nice car! Good luck with your manifold.

[lukegroves_123 0]

It's looking smart. Keep up the good work.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Finally got the cam covers sealed and bolted up. I feel like I am making some progress.

 

I got a nice selection of shiny bolts to use as I worried that my lovely painted items would be wasted by being fitted with rusty old things

 

 

 

 

 

 

I removed my metal water pipe, which wasn't actually very corroded at all. But I want a sense of reliability and piece of mind. A simple job turned into one I wish I hadn't started. One of the screws (have to order 20 of those blighters!) was chewed up and in the end I had to cut it out. I mangaged to get behind it with a spanner, but couldn't get enough bite on it. I then realised that Peugeot kindly must press a nut behind, then weld the section on. So I had to get the grinder out again and shave it off. Now I am going to have to run a 55mm bolt through to the engine bay which won't look great, but is all I can do. All this, when it didn't need changing

 

 

The light fades so early now we are getting to Autumn. I spend as much time as I can after work out in the light and by the time I encounter a problem, it gets too dark and that's another day gone

 

My deadline is a few weeks from now, and all I have to show for it is a painted engine and an empty bay. I spent too much time researching and collating everything, and not enough time trying things and finding problems I didn't know existed

 

I have been planning all along to run the GTi6 accelerator cable, thinking it would be a quick swap over. I fited it and found out the grommet sizes are a world away. The ball to prevent it moving in is way to far out, and the pedal will be too slack. The only way I can think it will work is to unclip the white lug on the end, and put the 205 locking grommet back on and then refit the white clip. But I imagine that will also end in tears. Back to the drawing board on that!

 

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Got some spacers made up to space out the pedal box. Beats using washers

 

 

Had the engine bay welded and primed and painted today as it was the only day with a decent forecast!

 

Holts colour match Apline White. Impressed with the nozzles and the coverage from these. Much better than Halfords cans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also painted my gearbox black while it was off

 

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Pleased to say I shoehorned the engine in today with the help of a mate.

 

What a tight fit!!

 

I had spaced my master cylinder up which gave loads of room (I thought) yet the bay is so tight that it was in the way to get the bleeding engine in. Had to loosen it off and force it past the cambelt cover for it to sit in between. Was a pain to shoe horn in to place with the gearbox on and it took much jacking and lowering with the crane and needed to be forced to get the engine mount on to sit on the mounting stud.

 

To think I have to take this in and out several times to modify the manifold

 

I hit a milestone getting it in, but not looking forward to the next bit.

 

Was jumping around when it was in and it looks rather special in there

 

I couldn't get a 'decent' phone pic as I am rolling with a K810i as my HTC screen smashed on my gearbox the other day when I knocked it over and the light was failing quickly to dig my digital camera out.

 

When it eventually actually fires up I think I will go flippin' nuts