Sequential Gears

[harryskid 193]

Has any one on here any experience of fitting sequential gears to a 205, be great for rally pugs.

[welshpug 1,662]

not seen many, iirc andy baker of ab motorsport runs one though, serious money mind....

 

i think figures are usually north of 10k for everything you'd need due to being a transverse application, cars like rwd escorts are much cheaper but still around 6 ish

[harryskid 193]

not seen many, iirc andy baker of ab motorsport runs one though, serious money mind....

 

i think figures are usually north of 10k for everything you'd need due to being a transverse application, cars like rwd escorts are much cheaper but still around 6 ish

 

Yer i thought the price might be the fly in the ointment. I Been looking at a few french rally videos and they seem to have quite a few fitted.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Andy runs a Sadev ST75 box, as does Andy Corner. I wasn't involved in fitting it but I did have the joy of setting up his management after fitting for the flat-shift; they certainly are bits of kit

 

Once you've factored in the actual box, the gear linkage and lever, the gear indicator and most importantly the custom shafts, it is knocking on 10k - there are cheaper options than Sadev (Quaife, Elite - the latter relatively unproven), and there certainly are more expensive options too (X-Trac and Tractive jump to mind). A lot of cash for a few hundred milliseconds saved on a gearchange, but I wouldn't say no myself

[harryskid 193]

Andy runs a Sadev ST75 box, as does Andy Corner. I wasn't involved in fitting it but I did have the joy of setting up his management after fitting for the flat-shift; they certainly are bits of kit

 

Once you've factored in the actual box, the gear linkage and lever, the gear indicator and most importantly the custom shafts, it is knocking on 10k - there are cheaper options than Sadev (Quaife, Elite - the latter relatively unproven), and there certainly are more expensive options too (X-Trac and Tractive jump to mind). A lot of cash for a few hundred milliseconds saved on a gearchange, but I wouldn't say no myself

 

O well, it sounds great but for club rallying its back to stirring gears with the old wooden spoon then!

[black lad 0]

Yer i thought the price might be the fly in the ointment. I Been looking at a few french rally videos and they seem to have quite a few fitted.

Probaly one the quickest french 205 drivers Sebastien Dommerdich, hes uses the peugeot sport h pattern 6 speed, search his name on you tube and be truely amazed. Sadev the only one to go for, elite and quaife not near as good a box, the tractive fwd box quite rare, as was said above all the good boxes carry a 10k price tag when all the bits are included.

[harryskid 193]

Probaly one the quickest french 205 drivers Sebastien Dommerdich, hes uses the peugeot sport h pattern 6 speed, search his name on you tube and be truely amazed. Sadev the only one to go for, elite and quaife not near as good a box, the tractive fwd box quite rare, as was said above all the good boxes carry a 10k price tag when all the bits are included.

 

 

Yes mate i've seen him. Very fast pug and a bloody great driver.

[Sam 4]

I looked at tracking down an Xtrac 406 (the part number, not the Peugeot model!) box for my old build. They might be easier to get now (but still not cheap) with all the bits you need (bell housing adapter, clutch etc). I had all the parts needed apart from the box itself but sold them all recently for peanuts really.

[Sam 4]

Forgot to mention, they were the ones used in all the BTCC cars when the 406 coupe's were around and for a few years after I'm sure. Give Tony a ring at Touring Car Spares if you're serious, he'll know where to get one.

 

You can get a sequential shifter for the VAG cable boxes that you might be able to adapt? It'd be way cheaper!

[harryskid 193]

Thanks Sam but its a thing for later and i've put it on hold at the moment.

[petert 591]

I know where one is, from a 405 touring car, but probably a bit too far to ship. Here are the ratios. Just drool.

 

1 3.357

2 2.562

3 2.117

4 1.850

5 1.590

6 1.434

FD 3.176

 

Here are the % changes between gears:

 

23.7

17.4

12.6

14.1

9.8

 

In top, it's 209 km/h @ 8500. And that's the with the long FD! It also has a shorter FD but I can't recall the ratio.

Edited August 17, 2011 by petert

[Batfink 201]

I've got two peugeot BTCC boxes and for some reason they used the longer F/D only unless they changed the casing to cope with the larger cog.

Those ratios are rather useful as I dont know what ones to use.

[Sam 4]

Are they Xtrac 406 Peter and Kev?

[Rippthrough 98]

Elite - the latter relatively unproven

 

Oh I don't know, I've seen plenty prove that they can blow themselves into pieces after a few races...although they do keep upgrading the internals.

Saying that, seen plenty of quaife do the same...

[Batfink 201]

Mine are Hewland HP 2000 gearboxes. I think the 406 moved to Xtrac but I'm not sure what was used when they started tilting the Mi16 engines forward. I think it was just another Hewland casing.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Batfink

[ally7th 7]

I would love a sequential box in my rally car but at over 3 times the cost of my whole car I think I will stick to second hand be3's

[harryskid 193]

I would love a sequential box in my rally car but at over 3 times the cost of my whole car I think I will stick to second hand be3's

 

Thats where i am at the moment too!

[Sandy 191]

I've used most of them and I never thought I'd think of Quaife as cheap and cheerful... Sadev is the standard and figure on £11k all told, that's what it will cost. Several of my customers have been quoted less initially, but that's what it cost in the end. Tractive is amazing, another level, smoothest boxes I've ever used by far; hard to explain how nice they are! Slightly obsessive though, they use no castings, even the case is machined from solid!

 

If you want a cheaper option, the Drenth H-pattern set works very well.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

What kind of money do the Hewlands go for 2nd hand, assuming you can find an ex-BTCC one? I suspect they're rarer but must have a good reputation and, being relatively local (Maidenhead) I'm guessing new bits for them are relatively easy to get hold of - assuming Hewland still support them. How would you compare a Hewland to the others?

[tri_longer 25]

Hewland appear to offer 2 tranverse boxes, one even described as "budget". Anyone interested in organising a group buy

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

I'm in Maidenhead right now on a training course - maybe I should pop in on the way home

 

Somehow I don't imagine Hewlands concept of "budget" is quite the same as mine

[Sandy 191]

LOL, not tried Hewland.

[tri_longer 25]

I'm dying to ring Tractive for a price having seen them on the website, such a work of art.

[Batfink 201]

What kind of money do the Hewlands go for 2nd hand, assuming you can find an ex-BTCC one? I suspect they're rarer but must have a good reputation and, being relatively local (Maidenhead) I'm guessing new bits for them are relatively easy to get hold of - assuming Hewland still support them. How would you compare a Hewland to the others?

 

You cannot get the old BTCC ones. I bought two for £3k and they have needed a lot of repair work just to make the casings salvageable and are going to need a lot more to get working fully. The casings were engine specific and all original castings sadly seem to have disappeared into the ether. As for quality - well mine don't work yet. The parts look nice though lol

It might not have been one of my most clever ideas but hey ho

Edited August 19, 2011 by Batfink

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Ah right; I'll knock that plan on the head then!

 

I did chat with Elite some time ago at Autosports when they were trying to punt out their new FWD transverse box; the 250-6S. They probably still are. The price is good, but they've just got no-one out their using it. It's apparently based on the internals of their Subaru box (proven?) but unfortunately they had a hard job of convincing me to invest in an unknown quantity. We were talking £6-7k all-in but if I'm having to strip it after each event or rebuild it constantly then it's not worth it. They really should consider doing what Sadev did with Simon Mauger, and give someone who can prove it a "freebie" for a season... if they truly believe it's reliable then they'll get knock-on sales from it. Likewise if it's not reliable, they'd get good testing and feedback (provided the person testing it is happy to accept the reliability issues but hey, if it's a freebie, they shouldn't complain!).

 

At the moment it seems the option(s) are Sadev and that's about it; Tractive or X-Trac if you've won the lottery.

 

I'll carry on fumbling around with that H-pattern for now mumble grumble

 

EDIT: Wonder if I can graft on a VAG DSG... they're heavy, mind, but boy they'd be a cheap alternative

Edited August 19, 2011 by brumster