1.9Gti Sump

[205_sunderland 4]

i got a genuine pug gasket, cleaned all the surfaces (and even used a finish stone in some places to get her perfectly flat and it keeps leaking from the from on sump and even from bolt hole?.

 

Do i need to re-tighten the bolts as i felt i did them as tight as i possibly could when i did the sump and its really annyoing now as it is weeping from front and like i said from bolt holes it appears .

 

I cant imagine ive over tightened them and wondering now if you have to give them another nip once the heat etc has settled the bolts as it should not leak at all and its only a little trickle down sump every time ive drove it but theres a little film of oil on front of sump now and its just really irritating.

 

Thanks in advance mick

[welshpug 1,657]

have you checked the stifferenr/spacer?

[smithy 1]

i seem to remember you saying that the spacer was not removed when you did shells??

 

at a guess i would say that is the issue not sure if it is a gasket or silicone between spacer and block on the tin sumps,my ally one is silicone job.

[205_sunderland 4]

It seems to be coming from the sump but there was sealer used on the previous sump when removed, the spacer seems fine you would of seen it running down it i would imagine as its clean and it does not appear the case. Its getting an oil change at 150 miles since the shells were done and its got another 40 to go. Ill take sump off with oil change and use sealer.

 

I dint want to but i suppose ill have it if it leaking, i know spacer is sealed with sealer from looking at it

Edited July 8, 2011 by 205_sunderland

[smithy 1]

as you are gonna have sump back off with oil change i would also have the spacer off at same time to reseal that aswell,from memory it is only an extra 2 small cap head bolts to remove.

[dcc 855]

sump off, use a stanley blade to clean off the old sealant, and make sure its dry, and use a nice bead of RTV or similar!

[205_sunderland 4]

as you are gonna have sump back off with oil change i would also have the spacer off at same time to reseal that aswell,from memory it is only an extra 2 small cap head bolts to remove.

 

Is it only an extra 2 bolts holding it on , and yeah ill be taking the sump off at this rate so ill do it aswell if that the case, im just really dissapointed that a genuine pug gasket hasnt even been capable of doing the job when it was so clean,feel like taking it back. The pic is before i cleaned it up too as it was clean anyway minus a small bit of pitting

 

Edited July 9, 2011 by 205_sunderland

[Anthony 1,003]

XU sumps, in particular the tin ones, are a nightmare to get completely completely sealed (and stay that way).

 

My guess is that the tin sumps distort slightly, and hence don't seal very well, and over-tightening the bolts is only liable to distort it further. I don't think that I've ever got a tin sump to seal 100% first time, and I've never really had much luck using just a gasket on them.

 

Alloy ones are generally much easier to get to seal properly, I'm guessing because of the undistorted mating face. Ensuring all the old gasket is removed, degreasing, and applying some decent RTV sealant is the trick with these, and then leaving it overnight to go off completely before adding oil.

[Pugs in Pieces 0]

the only way i ever stop them seeping after a rebuild is using tiger seal and leting it go off for a few days.even then the occasional bolt hole seeps as yours has. its a nightmare to clean off though if the sump does have to come back off.

[205_sunderland 4]

so there commonly a pain in the arse , i think a good mod here could the the bxgti 8v sump if there different as my old one never leaked a drop, but i might take her for a 40 mile run tonite and means its time for oil change tomoro and ill do the sump with change. Ive got some loctite in the garage i got from halfrauds to use (the black stuff)

[dee205 3]

If you use a nice bead of gasket sealant round the sump, leave it to cure slightly overnight before putting it back onto the block. I have used this method half a dozen times as do a few other rally/race men I know and it does a great job of stopping leaks round the sump.

[205_sunderland 4]

im on doing thew sump now, i hate stuff like this as you dont want to use to little sealant but dont want to much to seep over, what size bead you recommend i havent got time to leave other than a hour say

[marksorrento205 80]

Just put a bead that looks like when its squashed will fill the flange. Dont be to tight with it though as you need it to seal and I always go around each bolt hole! I would apply it, bolt the sump up and leave it overnight to cure as Anthony has said, before you fill it back up with oil. That way the oil wont bugger the sealant up.

[smithy 1]

i always put the bead closer to outer edge so that when sump is tightened up it spreads across the joint but most of excess is pushed out of engine rather than inside the sump.

[205_sunderland 4]

ive left it over night to cure, filled it will oul still but pushed the car into its parking space, i heard one hell of a terrible noise when i bolted up the bolts near flywheels end, i put the shorter bolts in middle two on that end and outer two of that end (referring to the 4 in that line) were both stuff to bolt in, one went stiff then i heard a crack noise and it screwed the rest of the way in fine i crapped myself but it cant of been anything to damage engine as im pretty sure that where people said the two shorter bolts go and once it made the crack noise it scrwed in a few more threads with east so hoping it was down to sealer in hole or something.

 

Soon find out tomoro when i start her ey ,

[smithy 1]

sounds to me like you have cracked the casing of the bolt hole in block behind the flywheel,not 100% but i think you have been lucky as it does not crack through to an oil gallery,the ones to watch are the 2 in main cap as it cracks where the seal sits.

 

i bet what has happened is some silicone sealer went down bolt hole and when tightening bolt it compressed causing it to be like hydraulic pressure.

[205_sunderland 4]

sounds to me like you have cracked the casing of the bolt hole in block behind the flywheel,not 100% but i think you have been lucky as it does not crack through to an oil gallery,the ones to watch are the 2 in main cap as it cracks where the seal sits.

 

i bet what has happened is some silicone sealer went down bolt hole and when tightening bolt it compressed causing it to be like hydraulic pressure.

 

awsome so ive killed my engine because it leaked os much oil and now the sealer to counter this has damaged it typical.

 

So the two bolts in the middle of the flywheel end of four are not where the seal sits? and whats the implications on the damage if theres been any? thanks for the help btw

[205_sunderland 4]

went to check the car there and it has weeped out the front on the sump overnight a little as it was parked on a slight bank (cant help it as theres too many cars where i live). it has lost enough to form a patch on the floor the size of a tennis ball so not mega as it was spread out so is nothing really and when i started her up she seemed fine so ive drove it round the parents and back to let it warm up a little and parked it on flat ground to cure further over the day while im at work.

 

Willl it seal if oil has already got through or once again am i going to have to do this? Im so pissed off with this now you should not have this much fcuk on with a sump.

[marksorrento205 80]

Sorry to say it, but a few people did say seal it, leave it over night then fill it up with oil the next day Gutted for you as I would be well pissed off having to do it three times

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

The alloy sumps are a lot easier to get a good seal compared to the tin sumps.

[smithy 1]

awsome so ive killed my engine because it leaked os much oil and now the sealer to counter this has damaged it typical.

 

So the two bolts in the middle of the flywheel end of four are not where the seal sits? and whats the implications on the damage if theres been any? thanks for the help btw

 

 

the 2 in middle are the main cap where rear main oil seal sits.

the 2 outer are blind holes in the block either side of the main cap.

 

which bolt caused the cracking noise? if one of the outers then i think you will get away with it if one of the inners i reckon it is 50/50 as to whether you get away with it.

if the oil has weeped out of the sump overnight then it will not seal as the oil will be between sealent and block or sump,only way would be have it off again give good clean,dig out sealent from bolt holes and start again but leave it 24 hours before adding any oil.

[205_sunderland 4]

the 2 in middle are the main cap where rear main oil seal sits.

the 2 outer are blind holes in the block either side of the main cap.

 

which bolt caused the cracking noise? if one of the outers then i think you will get away with it if one of the inners i reckon it is 50/50 as to whether you get away with it.

if the oil has weeped out of the sump overnight then it will not seal as the oil will be between sealent and block or sump,only way would be have it off again give good clean,dig out sealent from bolt holes and start again but leave it 24 hours before adding any oil.

 

it was one of the middle two the back one i belive , well now ive got to buy a new gasket and try do it again tomoro, i just hoping it hasnt killed the crank shaft oil seal as if it has ill be well pissed off if engine a right off. I drove it for 5 mins today and it didnt seem to be spewing oil like the bp line so hopefully ok but it wasnt exactly a thorough test

 

Well time for emergency bank account money and i think this sump has officially earner the title of the forum yoyo sump

[205_sunderland 4]

well took the sump off again,again again today and good news is it was one of the outside bolts i think that made the noise as i remember now swapping the shorter bolts over to see if it made a difference and it didnt so i used normal length bolt so hopefuly i just have to re-seal this bad boy and its job done

[marksorrento205 80]

Glad to hear it I did feel sorry for you at the thought that you had done some damage. I had a vision you would set fire to it or something in rage

[205_sunderland 4]

Glad to hear it I did feel sorry for you at the thought that you had done some damage. I had a vision you would set fire to it or something in rage

 

 

right the sump is on, new sealer on, no oil in and yes there will be some overflow in to the engine most likely of sealer which im really not happy about but i placed it as far away from the inside edge as possible and still saw some seep in when i fitted spacer plate , it hasnt seeped out around every part of the sump so i hope it hasnt went inside and has only did it as its just the right amount but brand new gasket and hopefully its done.

 

engine didnt seem to have any damage btw when i had the sump off again, didnt see any nasty cracks etc on block

 

If this does not work, ive decided im going into peugeot totally naked with an ak47 and laying them all to waste

 

And btw is there any way during an oil change to get rid of any sealer if it drops off, its always been a bin worry to me incase it blocks the oil pick-up

 

mick