[car_overhaul] My Cherry Red Long Term Project

[Fox 3]

After selling my GTi6 powered Miami blue 205 ages ago, I picked up a 309 GTi, but I've always had a hankering for another 205. I was even tempted to find a cheap base model shell to swap the running gear from my now rotten 309 into, I thought this would make an interesting Rallye/GTi lookalike!

 

I wasn’t after anything flash, just a reasonably tidy 205 to tart up and use when the weather is fine and maybe have a go at a couple of track days.

 

After a few cheeky beers, I decided eBay was the best place to start (and end) my search. As I’m sure many of you know, this is quite possibly the worst thing you can do, eBay and drink do not go together.

 

To cut a long story short, I bought a car. I'd clicked the bloody button and bought a car we don’t need, normally this sort of activity is met with me being in the bad books for a day or so, but the timing of this purchase possibly wasn't my finest moment, with a baby due in two weeks I had a feeling it would take some explaining and justifying as to why we needed 'another' car... oh well, I went to bed.

 

It turned out, I'd 'won' a reasonably cheap, and more importantly local cherry red 1.6 GTi.

 

 

 

Now, it looked great in the photos, low mileage, shiny cherry red and no sun roof, although the seller did state it looked better in the photos, and pretty poor in real life. He had owned it for two weeks and picked it up locally to break for spares, but it was 'too good.' (or a complete dog) Gulp.

 

I went round to have a look, and he was right. It’s clear to see it’s had a bit of paint, although the panel gaps seem to be straight so I'd imagine it’s just had a poor cosmetic blow over. The V5 showed the previous owner had owned it for a year, and the owner before had owned it since 2002!

 

The car was advertised as needing a head gasket, and when I got there, it wouldn’t even attempt to start due to a shot battery. The lad said he'd not even had a go at charging it to get it going, the oil had most definitely mixed with the water and it resembled a nice brown mess. Gulp (again)

 

So armed with a borrowed transit and a massive trailer I went and picked it up and brought it home.

 

And thats about it so far! I've been banned from going near it!

 

1. ASAP - Sort Head gasket and get it MOT’d. Either repair the 1.6 engine in it currently, or swap for the 1.9 lump out of the 309.

2. ASAP – Break 309, keep good bits and store / sell what I can

3. This winter – Remove engine, strip front end and rebuild. Maybe Mi16, or more than likely rebuild another 1.9 to a decent spec.

[Fox 3]

I was informed that I was not allowed to play with my latest purchase until the house was finished and the baby had arrived, but obviously I had to get it running so I could still use the garage (he he)

 

I slapped a fresh battery on and cranked it over, click. Nothing, I whipped out the plugs and tried to turn the engine with a spanner, then tried rocking it in gear, the engine appeared to be seized solid. Bugger, not only had my garage become filled with a car 'we' didn’t require, I was going to have to push it in and out every time I wanted to do something, not ideal.

 

After a sleep, and a day stewing I decided to have another go, with a bit of forcing and frustrated rocking in gear it turned! I turned the key and it spluttered into life! Thank god!

 

A quick compression test and cylinders two and three didn’t even register on the scale, and the header tank was pressuring up. It was also leaving a nice trail of brown sludge on the drive and garage floor, not ideal…

 

I started stripping the head down in the hope it might be ok with a quick gasket change.

 

 

The idea was to get it running and MOT’d and enjoy it for the summer, then consider what to do with it in the winter. I managed to get most of the head removed, then decided it was probably easier to whip out the whole lot, at least with the engine and box removed I could tidy the engine bay and clean up the engine before refitting. It also makes it easier to swap the clutch and cambelt / water pump while its out of the car.

 

 

 

Last week I picked up a set of half leather 1.9 seats, they were dead cheap but are also in pretty poor condition. I took them to show a local trimmer and he assured me they could be brought back to life with a few new bits of leather, and the red insets from the cloth 1.6 seats currently fitted in the car. Unfortunately they are too far gone to just stitch back up, the leather has gone hard and shrunk.

 

 

 

Next job is to strip the engine down and inspect it to see if it’s worth spending time and effort on, if not the 309 might have to be broken sooner than I thought.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Fox

[Fox 3]

Update time!

Again, I’ve not done much as I’ve been banned from the garage until I finish the house – women can be so unreasonable…

 

Although I managed to sneak out and split the head and block. Only to find the head gasket to be, well, ‘incomplete’, possible overheating? The block looks like it’s also been run with no antifreeze, or run with mixed oil and water for a while.

 

 

 

 

The head seems to be in reasonable nick, appears to have never been apart. I’ll have a look at the bottom end next and see what condition that’s in, although I’m not holding out much hope!

 

 

The leather seats have been dropped off at the trimmers, the leather on the back rest bolsters has shrunk and gone hard, so I’m having some new bits of leather sewn in. I’m not really sure how this will look, but should hopefully make a set of seats presentable again. I may even opt to have all the bolsters done on the front seats to match.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Jesus! That gasket was awful, got to be the original.

[Fox 3]

Well! I managed to get an hour in the garage and started stripping the front end back. I wasn't going to bother, but a few scabs of rust in the headlight panels made me want to investigate further.

 

 

And later...

 

 

Just need to get the bumper off now, as normal the fixing bolts have rusted solid so I soaked in WD40 and left for the night

[Fox 3]

Finally got the bumper off, the bumper itself is in fairly good nick so I took more time than normal getting it off with out damaging the fixings. I've swapped for pattern bumpers in the past and found them to be poor quality over the OE ones so fairly happy it came off cleanly!

 

More good news, as the head lamp panels seem to be solid and mostly rust free!

 

 

 

[omega 82]

arnt 205s great

you just whip the head off and before you know it the engine,box is out so while its out we just strip the engine,then you find a bit of rust and next thing the cars a bear shell then while you waiting for stuff out comes the interior for a refurb.......then theres the rear beam and as you have done so much you might as well have a respray.

[Fox 3]

Your right! What turned out as a quick tart up and make do is turning into a rebuild!

 

Anyway, good news and bad news today...

 

I dropped it back in its wheels and pushed it out of the garage, then I gave the bay and arches a dam good blast with the pressure washer to clear out years of silt and crap.

 

 

I also made some space in the garage, look!

 

 

Now for the bad news... I noticed a dent/lump on the o/s sill, upon closer inspection it was a crack

 

 

Then after a closer inspection I noticed the following tell tale signs of a rubbish repair

 

 

 

 

I've been happier!

[Fox 3]

Well, I've not done anything since finding the damage, I'm not that fussed about the lower 3/4 panel with a quick tidy up and re weld here and there it should be ok, as its largely hidden by the plastic moulding.

 

The crack in the sill is quite worrying. I'm more annoyed with myself for not noticing the damage when I viewed the car, although the underside was caped in mud. I'm just hoping the crack is not where someone has cut and shut the rear section of the sill. I've checked underneath and there is no obvious signs of this being the case - Judging by the quality of welding I'd be able to notice!

 

Fingers crossed the crack on the sill is simply some sunken filler/paint covering a small dent, I've not even checked the area with a magnet yet, but will do and will scrape and sand back to see what's going on.

 

First step is to take the rear interior trim out and have a look inside, I'm sure it'll be a mess!

 

Apart from this, the rest of the shell seems to be good, I've had a good poke about in the obvious rot and accident spots and can't really find anything else to report.

 

Watch this space...

[Fox 3]

After stewing since the weekend, I bit the bullet and went to remove the rear quarter interior trim last night, to get a glimpse of what might be lurking underneath. The first odd thing that struck me was the fact it had a phase one trim panel on, the other side has the correct black plastic phase two item, I cant believe I didn’t notice this, but not to worry, I can soon find a replacement. Then I noticed the drivers door trim was in fact also from a phase one, under closer inspection the drivers door is graphite grey under the trim!

 

After finding this I presumed the car must have received damage on this side, resulting in the rear quarter repair and replacement door. Although apart from the slightly dodgy welding the panel gaps seem to line up very well.

I removed the trim panel to find this…

 

 

It’s a copy of The News of the World (remember that!), well the two front pages at least. Alarm bells are ringing now, in my experience anyone that shoves a lump of screwed up newspaper in a car body panel isn't going to have done a good job.

 

I removed the paper and was pretty impressed, the paper was dated December 2009, so luckily it’s a reasonably recent repair. I say luckily as with the gap that has been left between the inner wheel arch and rear quarter, it was only a matter of time before it got full of mud, got wet and rusted out.

 

 

The repair seems to have been carried out due to rot rather than damage, the bottom of the B pillar is covered in surface rust, perhaps it had a small impact and allowed water in from the arch until it rusted away? The near side seems perfect in comparison.

 

 

I'm not really sure how I'm going to address this yet, maybe a good dousing in rust treatment, seam sealer, paint and a liberal coating of under seal?

 

[harryskid 193]

That lots gonna keep you busy for a while! Looks like you were Out Foxed! Good luck with it.

[Fox 3]

Another couple of weeks and another couple of hours spent working on the 205. I'm really finding it hard juggling my hobbies and spending time with the new addition to the family!

 

Back to what I'd found, I cleaned the rusted area out with a wire wheel on a drill until all the loose rust had come off, then welded a couple of stitch welds from the wheel arch onto the outside panel. This was almost impossible from inside the wheel arch due to a combination of the panel being pretty rusty and thin along the edge, and the fact access is pretty limited for the size of my mig gun.

 

I decided to undertake the welding from the inside of the panel. This also had the benefit of not being visible when the trim was back in place. While striping down the B pillar area I noticed the cut along the pillar had not been welded at all, so I ran a bead of weld across that.

 

Then it was simply case of dousing in rust treatment, acid etch primer, seam sealer and ready for paint.

 

I'm still not over the moon with the repair, my welding and bodywork skills are far from the standard of a professional body shop, but I’ve made it better than it was, and at least the rust will now hopefully be kept at bay. To be honest, the photos do make it look far worse than it is! I tried to smooth the seam sealer with a paintbrush and thinners, but decided it may be easier to sand back any high spots after it’s dried.

 

 

 

I've also been collecting parts; I picked up three Eagle F1's off Graham (pug_ham) and a complete exhaust from a guy advertising spares on Piston Heads. The exhaust is a walker, and really is like new, just a shame it’s the early three piece type. I didn’t realise until I got there to collect it, although for the price I really couldn’t change my mind!

 

The tyres are another cost saving exercise, I’m not normally one for buying part worn tyres, but the fact these are local and cheap had me persuaded. I’ve since found another matching one on Ebay, so I’ve got two at 3mm and two at 5mm. I’m fairly happy to have these put on and use them, they will last a good year with the mileage I intend to do, unless I manage to get to a track day!

 

 

I’ve sent a spare set of 1.9 Speedlines off to a mate for blasting, the intention is to get them powder coated silver and fit them with the ‘new’ rubber.

 

I also spent a bit of time treating the rust spots on the front headlight panels, from what I’ve gathered on here, these are no longer available, so it may well pay to make sure this area is protected. A thorough wire brush, rust treatment and some spray on hammerite sorted it. (I know most people think it’s only suitable for garden gates, but it’s all I had and is a bloody close match to cherry red!)

 

It looks like I’ll be borrowing some parts from the 309 to rebuild the 205, I really need to make a decision on the 309’s future, its by no means a lost cause but the rot has taken hold and may be an awkward repair. I’ll be looking to ‘borrow’ the engine, gearbox, suspension and maybe even the back axle to get at least one car on the road. It makes sense as these parts will need to come off anyway to undertake the welding repairs required. Chances are it wont be running an 8v engine if it ever comes back on the road anyway!

[Fox 3]

As expected I've not had a lot of time to sort the 205, the usual suspects (work and family) have slowed productivity to an all-time low. Although I got the seats back from the trimmers, it’s taken a number of months, I certainly won’t say I'm in no rush next time!

 

To say I'm happy with them would be a massive understatement, they look almost new! The photo really doesn’t do them justice. The new leather sits well with the old stuff, and makes a seat that looks like two years old rather than twenty!

 

On the engine front, I collected a good second hand 1.6 lump from Baz, this is slowly in the process of being built back up ready to drop in the car - I’d doubt it will be anytime soon though!

 

The seats...

 

[Fox 3]

As a matter of course, on the new engine I swapped the cambelt, tensioner and water pump.

 

 

Just about ready to go back in

 

 

Then I had a phone call from a friend, offering me a 309 GTi rear beam, of 'unknown' condition, the seller wanted £50, but could not guarantee any sort of condition so after a cheeky offer it was mine!

 

 

After a strip down and inspect, it’s going to need a full rebuild. It’s obviously been apart at some point in its life, it fell apart easily enough and had a miss match of random bolts and washers holding it together!

 

I decided seeing as the engine was out, it would be beneficial to give the engine bay a fresh coat of paint. I've managed to get a few hours here and these in the garage and got cracking clearing everything ready for prep and paint.

 

As it was...

 

 

After the struts had been removed, ready to drop the sub frame.

 

 

Sub frame off

 

 

As it stands now

 

 

Just a few bits to remove, got a rusted headlight bracket bolt, you know the one with the Philips head and 10mm bolt that always seem to be stuck... , a fuel hose that won’t pull off, and need to pull the loom back into the passenger footwell.

 

The dreaded rot seems to be minimal, just a small scab on each inner wing as to be expected really!

 

 

Under the front arches seem absolutely fine!

 

 

 

Coming along at last!

[dodsworth_gti 11]

eyup mate hows it going

 

just spotted this build,your a sod!!!!! this is exactly the sort of thing im looking for at the moment

 

ive got a minted subfamre painted and ready to bolt on to save you some time and effort its been seam relded to and it was been red oxided painted then painted in red

 

whats the crack with your 309 then???

[sensualt101 31 1 Cars]

from what i have seen you have had a lucky find as although not perfect your new car seems to have faired very well regarding the usual 205 corosion places especially the front end so may have been a bargain although when finding old and not very well done repairs is an annoyance i can sympathise with as i have had the same with my cherry red 1.6! am following your thread with interest as it will almost certainly be of use to me as reference as i slowly make my own car as new or better ( at least thats the plan! ) of course i am in the same boat as you regarding juggling funds and time with family. so keep up the good work and i look forward to seeing more updates

Edited January 26, 2012 by sensualt101

[Fox 3]

eyup mate hows it going

 

just spotted this build,your a sod!!!!! this is exactly the sort of thing im looking for at the moment

 

ive got a minted subfamre painted and ready to bolt on to save you some time and effort its been seam relded to and it was been red oxided painted then painted in red

 

whats the crack with your 309 then???

 

Hi Ben, got your message for the sub frame, I've got one here that I intend to get blasted and powder coated, but I'll keep it in mind!

 

Its on hold for the time being, currently parked up at my Dads house hid away in his garage. (Much to his delight!) It needs a windscreen and the sills and inner arch welding for the MOT, oh and I need to slot that new engine in you sold me! I'm not really sure what's going to happen to it, I cant break it (its far too good really!) I'd imagine it'll sit for another year until the 205's on the road and I'll turn my attention to it. Ideally I'd like it as a daily driver with a GTi6 lump in, although funds wont allow!

 

from what I have seen you have had a lucky find as although not perfect your new car seems to have faired very well regarding the usual 205 corosion places especially the front end so may have been a bargain although when finding old and not very well done repairs is an annoyance i can sympathise with as i have had the same with my cherry red 1.6! am following your thread with interest as it will almost certainly be of use to me as reference as i slowly make my own car as new or better ( at least thats the plan! ) of course i am in the same boat as you regarding juggling funds and time with family. so keep up the good work and i look forward to seeing more updates

 

Yes, what appeared to be not such a good find has turned around, if the front end was rotten I'd have probably chucked in the towel and scrapped it!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Fox