How Can I Blow £3,000?

[driversdomainuk 8]

No but it would make the general running better along with normally better midrange, Filters are not required personally on a competition car (I never use them), You will then find that inlet lengths have a huge difference in power delivery, I know that a old Mi on here which swapped to Sandy B/Colin S bodies made a fair bit more and having played with 8 injector set up on 8v you can get around 10% more peak power with them in the right place

 

I think with £3k and the fact I have weber carbs, I will avoid TBs....its a competition car 100%...if it was a road car, I may go for TBs for the driveability and running improvement...

 

Well I have sort of got a list in mind now:

 

Steel Pistons and Rods - £900

Rally Cams and bits - £600 (maybe way out here)

head work - £1,000 ?

 

So thats £2,500 but no doubt will look at other stuff...also have an genuine Peugeot oil pump (£250!!) which I will fit...May invest the rest into a 1.6 box!!

 

What is everyones view of that?

[Baz 421]

Built the same engine Sarty did on Evo2. 250hp Should be doable with 3k? 88x87 Iron XU10 MI16, standard head, stage 2 PeterT cams, Ditch the carbs and fit ITBs...

Again, debatable and you'll probably find that for competition use an iron block and capacity increases are limited.

 

http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/standard-kits/jenvey-dynamics/peugeot-mi16-tbp45-kit-ckpg03

 

See link above - would I need to spend £726 + vat for the kit, then around £600 for say an Omex 600 ECU...Is that all I will need to spend for the throttle boddies?

 

thanks

 

No, you could have new for slightly less if you know where to buy, or buy a used kit!

 

You don't actually need a proper cable linkage, most save the £100-odd and make a simple DIY bracket and link the cable straight to the linkkage on the bodies themselves, hence Emerald/Jenvey don't actually include it as it hikes the price up so much. Bear in mind for competition regs you may need a secondary throttle return spring fitted also though, not hard to add but the expensive Jenvey linkage does have it.

 

Again i really don't think you need the headwork, it's a massive cost for slight gains unless done by someone very experienced, it's easily screwed up and IMO should be last on the list, if budget permits. I think you could give the carbs a chance if they're set up well or you have someone that can do so. But, the management is important, analog 8v management just can't cut it, you could always buy a full 3d ECU and only utilise the ignition side for now, future proofing should you later decide to go for bodies.

 

If you want to go for big power you'll need the cams, which need the CR, whether that's obtained by as said the intruder/domed pistons or decking the block or skimming the head(obviously limitations), or as Pete says, using an ultra-thin HG.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Anthony

[Baz 421]

Just to add, 1.6 box if not 4.4FDR is a good idea! What do you run now?

[welshpug 1,661]

afaik Sarty's engine was more like 5k+ quite easily, no doubt you could save a little bit here and there but not a massive amount.

[johnaldridge101 0]

Again, debatable and you'll probably find that for competition use an iron block and capacity increases are limited.

 

 

 

No, you could have new for slightly less if you know where to buy, or buy a used kit!

 

You don't actually need a proper cable linkage, most save the £100-odd and make a simple DIY bracket and link the cable straight to the linkkage on the bodies themselves, hence Emerald/Jenvey don't actually include it as it hikes the price up so much. Bear in mind for competition regs you may need a secondary throttle return spring fitted also though, not hard to add but the expensive Jenvey linkage does have it.

 

Again i really don't think you need the headwork, it's a massive cost for slight gains unless done by someone very experienced, it's easily screwed up and IMO should be last on the list, if budget permits. I think you could give the carbs a chance if they're set up well or you have someone that can do so. But, the management is important, analog 8v management just can't cut it, you could always buy a full 3d ECU and only utilise the ignition side for now, future proofing should you later decide to go for bodies.

 

If you want to go for big power you'll need the cams, which need the CR, whether that's obtained by as said the intruder/domed pistons or decking the block or skimming the head(obviously limitations), or as Pete says, using an ultra-thin HG.

 

where is the better place to buy new jenveys and save money??? iv been looking for a s/h set up but cant find any, does any one know to any??

ps. sorry for the hijack

[Jrod 7]

I think it would be easy to 'blow' 3k and end up with a very average engine. I was sensible and spent less than 3k... still got 197bhp.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Good quality rods and Pistons are more than £900.00, more like £800.00 per set, Yes you can use cheaper but as with everything you get what you pay for. I would only use Omega, Arrow for example as it's not worth the hassle with the other stuff

[petert 588]

I know our dollar is currently very strong compared to the pound and euro, but I'm currently getting Mahle pistons at AUS$750 per set. You definitely don't need aftermarket rods for what you have in mind. Just get the standard ones closed and honed, then fit new ARP bolts. I think you're way off the mark with these:

 

 

Steel Pistons and Rods - £900

Rally Cams and bits - £600 (maybe way out here)

head work - £1,000 ?

Edited June 8, 2011 by petert

[camgti 56]

Agreed on no head work required. They flow circa 260 cfpm anyway. Also no need for steel rods, the revs would be what ultimately limits their lifespan..

[petert 588]

Also, fitting aftermarket pistons in an XU9J4 is more difficult (and more expensive) than you think. This engine is one of a few that have piston centered conrods. ALL of the aftermarket forged pistons I have purchased have needed additional machining to keep this important feature. This means machining inside the piston and making washers to control the thrust. Otherwise the rod will "wallow" about inside the piston, possibly becoming offset/kinked, robbing valuable hp through friction losses.

 

Fitting forged pistons to an XU10J4 in contrast, is a relatively straight forward process and ultimately cheaper to get more hp for the same money spent.

[philfingers 5]

this may give you some idea of what I did to combat the surge, lots of ideas but most gleaned from PeterT

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=100177

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

Also, fitting aftermarket pistons in an XU9J4 is more difficult (and more expensive) than you think. This engine is one of a few that have piston centered conrods. ALL of the aftermarket forged pistons I have purchased have needed additional machining to keep this important feature. This means machining inside the piston and making washers to control the thrust. Otherwise the rod will "wallow" about inside the piston, possibly becoming offset/kinked, robbing valuable hp through friction losses.

 

Fitting forged pistons to an XU10J4 in contrast, is a relatively straight forward process and ultimately cheaper to get more hp for the same money spent.

 

 

excuse my ignorance, but why are they like that?

 

mike

[driversdomainuk 8]

Just to add, 1.6 box if not 4.4FDR is a good idea! What do you run now?

 

 

I run a standard 1.9 BE3 box at moment.

[driversdomainuk 8]

so how much would I expect to pay for some rally cams, solid lifters etc etc....(I already have Kent pulleys) and assuming I have high CR pistons...

[Anthony 1,003]

I run a standard 1.9 BE3 box at moment.

I don't know whether it would be reflected by stage times, but certainly on road and track a 1.9 GTi gearbox feels far too long for an Mi16 engine and makes it feel flat and underwhelming. An off the shelf 1.6 box makes a massive difference in terms of feel of the car, although as said, I've never tested both back to back against a clock.

 

Before touching the engine I'd certainly try a shorter box first to see if that allows you to use the power you currently have more effectively.

[welshpug 1,661]

can confirm that a 1.9 cluster with 4.4 F/D makes a hell of a difference to a stage car, not too often you need such a long 5th gear like a 1.9 has!

 

both cars I service for have 4.4 f/d's now, one a standard 1.6 and the other a 1.9.

[Baz 421]

 

Before touching the engine I'd certainly try a shorter box first to see if that allows you to use the power you currently have more effectively.

 

Damn good point here, on both my old Miami and Sorrento Mi's on bodies i swapped from 1.9 boxes to 1.6 items, both times making the cars a totally different animal!

[matt.f 16]

Agreed,my 1.9 has a 1.6 box with 4.4 and it's a lot better

[petert 588]

excuse my ignorance, but why are they like that?

 

mike

 

Do you mean

 

(a) why is my piston like that?

 

or

 

( why did PSA design the XU9J4 with a piston centered rod in the first place?

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

why did PSA design the XU9J4 with a piston centered rod in the first place?

 

 

mike

[petert 588]

Because if crank centered, the rod can move across the big end pin causing two issues:

 

1. The rod rubs against the crankshaft robbing hp through friction losses

 

2. When the rod moves off centre, a moment couple (Force x distance) is produced which forces the rod to buckle/twist, making edge-point bearing contact undesirable and scuffing the side of the piston against the bore.

 

XU9J4 pistons are rarely worn when you remove them from an engine. The liners and rings wear, but unlike 8V pistons, the piston skirts are rarely scuffed.