Remap Next Week

[craig_007 1]

Well after the recent purchases for the MI I'm heading for a re map next week which should be interesting, I'm curious to know what some of you guys would be expecting as a decent result regarding power and torque.

 

The last carnation made 167 fly 130ish wheels & 145lb/ft with bike carbs, standard 3 piece exhaust,standard cams & H&H Dizzy

 

This time around I'm on

 

Jenvey bodies 45mm with GTI6 injectors

 

Lumenition management

 

Petert stage 2 inlet cam & standard exhaust cam

 

Maniflow manifold with 2 1/4 system

 

If it makes any odd the compression when hot equates too 215 psi across the 4 cylinders.

 

I'm hoping for 150 wheel horse power and hopefully 150lb/ft ! Is that realistic ???

[Anthony 1,003]

To be honest that should comfortably make 190-200hp@fly I'd say if everything's in good order and setup right

 

Certainly all the ingredients are there - Mi with good compression, Jenvey's, mappable management, decent exhaust/manifold and a fairly hot inlet cam.

[Baz 421]

+1 200ish or just over.

[petert 601]

Is it an otherwise standard engine? The reason I ask, is that is has a fair amount of compression for that cam with standard pistons etc. Perhaps it's advanced a bit too much? How did you set the cam up? It will certainly make heaps of midrange grunt. I probably would have expected around 200ish psi.

[Baz 421]

In fact, this would be very interesting as i don't think there's actually been results posted from a St2 inlet yet!

 

What pulleys are you running Craig?

[welshpug 1,666]

Which inlet manifold and trumpet arrangement? that'll have an effect on how it delivers it too

[Baz 421]

It's a standard Longman/Jenvey inlet with about 60mm trumpets if he's using the complete kit i sold him.

[craig_007 1]

Yep it is the kit you sold me Baz Longman/Jenvey with the 60mm trumpets.

 

I will need to re check the compression as the 215 psi was with the existing cams.

 

I set the cam up with the lift at TDC method and I rechecked that several times. The inlet cam figures were tooken from your site also peter.

 

The cam pulleys are adjustable ones. The engine its self is standard but was given a full rebuild less than 2000 miles ago so all should be in good order.

 

I will be quite happy if it makes around 200bhp should make for an entertaing car I would hope !

[Jrod 7]

My engine is standard with Catcams and Bike bodies and made 197bhp. I think 190-200 is a decent figure for an Mi without lots of work.

[petert 601]

s the 215 psi was with the existing cams.

 

That would explain it, as you'd need to have 11+:1 to get that much cranking pressure with that inlet cam. I'd expect somewhere between 105-110kW at the wheels.

[petert 601]

Here's an interesting page I've just found for calculating theoretical dynamic compression ratios and cranking pressures. Your inlet cam is 236 deg. @ 0.050". On a 106 deg. centre line, it will close at 44 deg. ABDC. Put in the rest of the data and see what you get. It's interesting to see what happens when you advance/retard the cam.

 

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm

[craig_007 1]

Well things didnt go to plan today !!!

 

First of all couldn't get the fuelling right, Injector duty cycle 85+ and loads of black smoke from the exhaust (Unburnt fuel)

 

Removed injector plug from ITB 1 and it made no difference same thing with injector 2, If I removed injector plug 3 or 4 the car cut out !! 2 faulty injectors.

 

Tried the yellow MI injectors and the fuelling changed dramatically, No smoke from exhaust and AFR reading alot more accetable but the car was running lean up top with 3 bar fuel pressure !!

 

Next up the TPS was all over the place, Help the throttle at 50% open steady and the tps figure were dropping back 40,30 20 etc but once above 70% this problem cleared !!!

 

So I now need to get the existing injectors cleaned and maybe order a new TPS.

[petert 601]

 

Tried the yellow MI injectors and the fuelling changed dramatically, No smoke from exhaust and AFR reading alot more accetable but the car was running lean up top with 3 bar fuel pressure !!

 

 

This is good. It means it's ready to make serious hp when you can supply enough fuel.

[craig_007 1]

As a knock on from another thread I thought I would this here.

 

I have done another compression test and with the stage 2 cam my warm cranking pressure is reading 210psi, As I said before I rechecked the cam timing several times with the dti gauge etc

 

So does this sound like I have the inlet to far advanced ?

 

Also refering to my other topic, The car really doesn't like to idle at an afr of any lower than 13-1 !

 

I'm hoping this isn't going to cause any fuelling issues at idle, On a plus side though, The cold start values are 13-1 also as opposed to 10-1 before I altered them.

 

One last question !

 

When I've had the car idling so I can alter the map when the air temp gets up around 40 degrees in the garage and water temp just below 100 degrees the fuelling seems to do it's own thnig and the car won't take revs ! This only happens when the temps are up this high, Could it be because of the air temp ?

[petert 601]

What other thread?

 

At 210psi with those cams it sounds mechanically perfect. Don't get spooked by AFR numbers at idle. Just make sure it sounds happy and look for highest manifold vacuum. As for the other problems, I have no idea. Perhaps send me a copy of the map and I'll take a look.

[Batfink 201]

you should easily make more than your expected output. Mine was 146bhp at the wheels (174odd at fly) with the same spec but without the cams.

[Anthony 1,003]

When I've had the car idling so I can alter the map when the air temp gets up around 40 degrees in the garage and water temp just below 100 degrees the fuelling seems to do it's own thnig and the car won't take revs ! This only happens when the temps are up this high, Could it be because of the air temp ?

What values do you have in the section for air and water temperature correction? If these are way out it would probably cause what you're seeing.

[craig_007 1]

After fixing all my little niggles with the car I had it back on the rollers today.

 

To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement !!

 

Car made 137bhp at the wheels but the operator siad due to the R/R set up that equates to approx 195bhp at the fly !! That's 60 bhp loss on the rollers.

 

Also 137bhp at the wheels is poor. Can wheel horse power vary from set up to set up ?

 

Car sounded superb on the rollers and appears to drive well, I know I shouldn't get hung up on figures but this doe's seem p£ss poor !!

 

The fuelling look to be good also here is a copy of the print out.

 

Any opinions welcome chaps.

 

Edited July 14, 2011 by craig_007

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

First thing I would do is get some history of the RR to see what other car's made then at least you have a rough idea of whats going on

[rallyeash 155]

aslong as it feels right on the road i'd be happy, take rr figures with a pinch of salt. as miles says try see if its got a bit of a rep for giving low figures. if your still concerned try go to another set of rollers for a power run.

[craig_007 1]

Just done a bit of digging on the net, Seems there have been a few varying results.

 

2.0 16v corsa with 116bhp at the wheels !

 

Seems to read more favourable with the big power motors.

[craig_007 1]

Here is my fuel and ignition maps.

 

If anyone can see anything untoward do tell.

 

 

 

[craig_007 1]

With the car having a petert stage2 cam would anyone have a ignition map they can send over to me ?

 

I'm not happy with the figures above and looking for some more input hopefully !

 

Regarding the stage 2 cam,

 

When should this be coming on cam so to speak and where should I be expecting the power to start tailing off ?

 

I've currently got the rev limit at 7400.

 

When the car is underload say around 5000/5500rpm 100% load 4 th gear my afr hits 14.0-1, Is that too lean as I have alot of hesitation around 5k ?

 

The exhaust is really black which would indicate over fuelling ?

 

When give the car some it just doesn't feel quick at all, Could the ignition timing being out have any affect here ?

 

I'm now beging to doubt my cam timing although I did spend hours setting this up !!!

[dcc 855]

I have a similar spec cam to the one petert supplies as a stage2, mine tends to come alive from 3k then at 4.5k it gets very aggressive up to the limiter (8k~)

[petert 601]

You've been busy whilst I've been away! My first comment is that I can only speak in kW @ the wheels, done on DynoDynamics rollers. Similar spec engines I've been involved with make around 105-112kW @ the wheels. So your 137hp(102kW) is a tad down but not excessive, and "possibly" within tolerances of other rollers. In regards to ignition maps, at full load (100%) 26 deg is around the right money. However, the fact that all the cells say 26.02 suggest no time has been taken to actually "map" the engine on the dyno. I would expect subtle differences, up to 1 deg, from 3000 onwards. This is assuming that base timing has been verified with a timing light and he has not just entered some figures from his head! In regards to mixtures, 14:1 is way too lean for any full load mixture. Your mixtures should be in a range from 12.7:1 to 13:1 from 2000 to 7500 at 100% throttle. I'm not familiar with your ECU so I'm not sure what the fuel figures indicate. However, there is no way that it would be richest at 6800/7200 ie 255. Maximum fuel occurs at peak torque, which should be approx 5500. So basically, I think you mapping is not very well done at all. I'll look for a typical ignition map that's mapped via TPS and post it later.