Bolster Cloth Black

[denva2682 2 2 Cars]

I have just managed to find something easily - no mean feat in my office!

It's a Peugeot 205 CTI brochure dated August 1986 (the same month mine was first registered!)

There is a good photo of the seats with the caption underneath which reads; "The seats are trimmed in ribbed velour" and the spec list states that this is "black / red ribbed velour" despite the fact that mine now look a little more dark blue than black now! Well, it's a start at the very least should you ever get the time / demand to go down the phase 1 route. Best wishes, W.

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi Will,

I fear it will never be as easy as "one click" whilst I can't get replica insert fabrics made. My only full seat product (GTi) will be a 1/2 leather/alcantara insert version or B09 (Rallye) seat covers, until that time. The dilemma still exists therefore. It isn't just a case of collating materials and making the seats - god ,I wish it was! The majority of the seat covers I have worked with (taken to pieces that is) have had "Quartet" insert fabric also described as velour fabric (it's nothing like velour), the bolster material is not a black ribbed velour either - it's a polyester corduroy (16 wale, foam backed). So I think you can understand I get a bit twitchy when the term velour is used.

 

Quartet as fitted to the front seat inserts is usually well worn out and I have expressed doubts as to the viability of fitting new bolster covers to old insert fabric. This being the reason I didn't offer a "send me your old cover and I'll refurbish it" type service

I am looking to use a a reinforcing fabric, much beloved of dressmakers, called "Vilene" to consolidate the rather tatty edges of the inserts and would certainly advise it's use when using my bolster repair kits. It's known technically as a fusible interfacing fabric.

and should get round the aforementioned problem

 

Your talk of finding brochures leads me to think you work in a Pug dealers, is that correct? However, Henry (Yorke) seems to be able to produce this sort of info at the drop of a hat so I may well be wrong

 

I hope Amanda gets back off hols soon as I'm waiting on the thigh bolster covers at the moment. Still these things will happen when they happen. (How very philosophical I am this morning )

regards

Dave

[denva2682 2 2 Cars]

 

 

Your talk of finding brochures leads me to think you work in a Pug dealers, is that correct? However, Henry (Yorke) seems to be able to produce this sort of info at the drop of a hat so I may well be wrong

 

 

 

Please see below for correct response - mods, if you see this, please erase and leave the post below. Cheers.

Edited June 29, 2011 by denva2682

[denva2682 2 2 Cars]

 

 

Your talk of finding brochures leads me to think you work in a Pug dealers, is that correct? However, Henry (Yorke) seems to be able to produce this sort of info at the drop of a hat so I may well be wrong

 

 

 

You are indeed mate - I'm just a bit of a nerd when it comes to 205s and so collect automobilia for the marque I grew up with these cars, hence my heightened interest in them.

 

I see what you mean about having doubts over Peugeot's use of the term 'velour,' I've had the later cloth types in another 205 and you are of course completely right, they are absolutely nothing like velour! But these older ones most certainly are - they have very poor quality cloth bolster covers in black with red stitching, yet a much heavier, plush and velvet-like material centre insert - they are certainly more convincing as velour than the later seat trims were at least This Vilene material sounds promising for repair work, I'll keep my eye on your future posts, perhaps it may be possible to repair these old seats to a passable degree in the future? All the best, W.

Edited June 29, 2011 by denva2682

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi all,

After much prevarication I have finally got my first production batch of thigh bolsters. As I mentioned back on 15th June, Amanda the machinist wants a known (to her at least) protocol for locating nicks,easing/fitting cuts etc,etc and it has taken us both ages and at leat 3 attempts to finally get to a point where she can assemble the bolster covers virtually blindfold.

This may sound fairly obvious, but when you take seat covers to bits to make the patterns it isn't at all easy to tell locating from easing/fitting cuts.

This has been a big overall problem as when you do a "one off" trim of a seat it isn't really important, but when you want to go into production (albeit small batch) these things have to be right. Something which had escaped me as well was the inversion of these important locating marks when you swithch from right to left hand side items. Still we've got there and I will trim out a front seat this week in order to establish the final fitting details bothfor my instruction books, and to get some pictures on to my website.Pheew!!

As has been noted, if you wish to retain the original inserts to your seats then repair/renovation is your only route, hopefully using my squab and bolster covers

watch this space and check my site - if I haven't bored you all to death.

regards

Dave

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Could you put a link to your website in your signature?

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Yup .

i'd got it into my head that I couldn't do that - sorry.

Dave

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Dave, forgive me if I have missed it, are the side bolster covers in cloth for 1600 seats now finished and ready for sale? Also any pictures of the finished item?

 

I have just the candidate for these in my just purchased Laser Green 1.6.

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Dave, forgive me if I have missed it, are the side bolster covers in cloth for 1600 seats now finished and ready for sale? Also any pictures of the finished item?

 

I have just the candidate for these in my just purchased Laser Green 1.6.

 

No Tom they aren't. My machinist cannot get the notch sewing right. I had hoped that the launch of the cloth bolster covers would have been by the end of June (2011 ) but I've come to a stand off whereby I don't know what mods are required to the patterns and she doesn't seem to be able to tell me. It's all a bit frustrating as I'd had my original patterns reworked by a pro trimmer in case I'd made any obvious mistakes.

To be frank, since the beginning of July I'd become a bit jaded and lost interest in the covers, so I took a complete break. I did sell bolster foams mind.

 

The problem of supply of the material itself has also been a source of annoyance - Marstons in Birmingham only ever intended to sell the one end of roll they had - but just didn't bother to tell me. ASCI (France) have a fabric which is good but costs me nearly €50 a metre. This was giving me problems I didn't need.

 

I may be able to source from West Trading - but I am looking for continuity of supply. But they seem to be saying they can't get any more made by their supplier, and don't seem to want to guarantee anything. This approach by suppliers is just a pain in the arse. as they all just seem to be end of roll/end of line sales.

 

I will keep everyone up to speed when I think I've got something to say.

regards

Dave H

[McDude 33]

I've been following this post with great interest as I have a long term dream of rebuilding my Pug and making it an absolute minter. A full set of half leathers with new foam underneath would be awesome.

 

I can't imagine the market (i.e. people like me) is huge, but one thing I would say is that I wouldn't expect this to be cheap - so when you say the French cloth is €50 a metre, how many metres would a full re-tirm need? How much of the total cost would it be? It may not be prohibitive.

 

Anyway, keep up the good work.

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

I've been following this post with great interest as I have a long term dream of rebuilding my Pug and making it an absolute minter. A full set of half leathers with new foam underneath would be awesome.

 

I can't imagine the market (i.e. people like me) is huge, but one thing I would say is that I wouldn't expect this to be cheap - so when you say the French cloth is €50 a metre, how many metres would a full re-tirm need? How much of the total cost would it be? It may not be prohibitive.

 

Anyway, keep up the good work.

 

Hi mate,

You misunderstand me. It's not the absolute price which concerns me - it's the being messed about by suppliers gets me down. If I can get a guaranteed constancy of supply (and not a 30 metre end of roll) at a good price then all is well. But what I actually get is - oh sorry mate that's all we have of that material.Or - It's not being made anymore etc,etc. I have mentioned this in my previous posts on the subject. The real piss take was - we could get some made but the price would be (double) and a Minimum order of x thousand metres.That's only the 1.6 needlecord cloth - not exactly technically challenging as far as materials go.

The Quartet insert fabric is a different matter of course - If I could find a manufacturer who could do the Quartet patterns red/black and green/black micro-check in a good wool or polyester yarn I'd have cracked it. British manufacturer response is more or less total indifference. You buy from their catalogue or you don't buy.

The Chinese are wonderfully enthusiastic but the enevitable communication problems incurred by using e-mail (are actually hilarious at times ) can lead to misunderstandings. I'd love to go out to Shanghai and do a tour of the weaving mills to try and get what I want made. Maybe I will - I don't know yet.

I'll get back in to the saddle again shorly (probably after the Rugby World cup ends). I try not to moan too often and not be too obvious when fishing for praise .

Keep the faith

best regards

Dave

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi all,

I've had a (rare) moment of mental clarity today . I have had nothing but trouble with the the thigh bolster covers because of the seeming inability of pro cover machinists (3 now) to get the notch cutout right. This strangely enough is only on the thigh bolster covers and not the squab bolsters. I have been looking at a lot of recaro seats lately (both foams and covers) and realise that I could easily do a thigh bolster foam without the offending notch. This would be easier to mould and also would make the relevant bolster cover easier to assemble. It would mean 2 more master GRP moulds would have to be made but it would really make things easier for me and the machinist(s).

So what I'm saying is - "Would this be a deal breaker?" for those of you wanting to replace just thigh bolster foams, or would I need to retain foams with a notch for them.

regards

Dave

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

In all honestly, I would want the notches. Sounds odd, but if I was going to the trouble (and cost) of buying new bolsters (rather than sourcing decent second hand ones) I would want them to be original. Maybe Im alone, but I imagine the kind of people buying interior stuff like this are concerned with originality.

 

Aplogies, Possibly not what you wanted to hear!

 

Craig

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

In all honestly, I would want the notches. Sounds odd, but if I was going to the trouble (and cost) of buying new bolsters (rather than sourcing decent second hand ones) I would want them to be original. Maybe Im alone, but I imagine the kind of people buying interior stuff like this are concerned with originality.

 

Aplogies, Possibly not what you wanted to hear!

 

Craig

You can have the foam - you just wouldn't have the replacement covers for them. Don't forget that the squab is OK - it's only the thigh bolster cover which has been problematic.

Dave

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

So can you supply the squab bolster cover in the black cloth then? And can you also supply me with enough black cloth to somehow make a cover for the thigh bolster?

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

So can you supply the squab bolster cover in the black cloth then? And can you also supply me with enough black cloth to somehow make a cover for the thigh bolster?

To be strictly correct I have made up some squab bolster covers (black cloth) and these look OK.I've posted early jpgs back in May. The proofing of both the patterns and the sewing procedures is crucial to my business model. When I'm happy with both squab and cushion covers then I'll be ready to start selling them. Nobody is keener than me to get this second product to market.

I'm afraid if you want to buy your own material then that's what you must do. My own fabric supply is extremely limited, as I'm sure you are well aware, because of the problems I encounter with "suppliers" . I only have 4 metres in stock at the moment.

I fully intend to produce cloth bolster covers (full sets) but have been held up by the squab notch fitting problem and for the other reasons I've already stated. Your requirements seem more immediate and so I can't help you at this point in time.

best regards

Dave

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi all,

As I said in post #1 of this thread - the french club members don't mess about when they want something.

This is their latest group buy of the bolster fabric. Bought by subscription I think.

 

 

 

We could do this - but the idea of paying for the material then getting your friendly local trimmer to make them up for you might be a bit too much for forum members. Still economies of scale usually apply

regards

Dave

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi all,

as you are aware I've been pulling my hair out over the final joining seam of the thigh bolster component sections, once I get this correct and it sits right on the foam - bingo we're ready to rock .

I rather naively thought that pro trimmers, pattern makers, machinists etc would eat this sort of minor problem for breakfast. This was, in retrospect, a bit daft. The profile of the 205 GTi seat foams (squab and cushion) are unique and unless you've done a GTi re-trim you'll never know. The detail around the notch(es) relates to fitting a straight edged piece of fabric to a piece with a cutout (the notch). The tendency of most machinists is to sew this virtually straight with just a slight kink in the sewing line. This has led to repeated failure as the seam is flattened and doesn't fit into the cut out correctly.

This is illustrated (in an exaggerated fashion) by the following paper pattern mock up of this seam.

 

 

 

The actual seam is a bit softer in profile - but it shows what needs to be done. I will be going all out to complete this final part of my bolster covers and then I can 1) take pictures of my own seat for marketing purposes and then 2) start practicing on the leather versions. This may seem a trivial matter on the face of it, but it has been the inability of people I've been working with to see the answer that has delayed my product launch and made me wonder wether I could actually do it. I feel that things should progress more speedily and will post final proto pictures next week as I progress.

regards

Dave

PS hope you got your fabric Tom.

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi all,

I'm glad to report that it's been a good week for me on the bolster assembly front. I haven't got it quite right yet but the notch itself no longer holds the "horrors" for me that it did. As I've already said - what confused me was why 3 pro machinists , a trimmer, and a pattern maker couldn't combine to get the final good result. Each managed a part , but it still didn't add up to a good fitting bolster cover.Most annoying

Never the less I've been working all this week making (and remaking) black denim protos using card patterns (so I can easily tweak them and do another run). Very close now as the actual profile is good and it's just a matter of tidying up the actual final overall fit and then tidying my sewing lines

This is down to practice, practice and more practice.

This has been cathartic in as much as I was beginning to wonder about the wisdom of this particular product given that so many attempts had been made and no product to show. I'm happy now that I certainly will be able to produce them, unfortunately ran out of practice fabric and have ordered another few metres from wholesaler. I've done the squab bolsters and just need to sew the vinyl back section into place - I can then fit that to my own drivers seat. That should be on for next week. I have also decided to modify/strengthen the seam reinforcement mechanism as it's the main cause of seams splitting. (you know the one in the fleabay ads - just a small split - easy repair and don't tell you the leather sew holes are ripped, so no chance pal, cover scrap)

I'll get there. As a lot of you know by now - if it ain't good enough for my own car I won't try and sell it to you

regards

Dave

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi all,

I've been beavering away this week - and am getting much more used to sewing these covers. Here's a couple of pictures of this mornings practice pieces. Just sewn and popped onto the bolster foam to see how it sits. I'm feeling a lot more confident that I'll have a full seat ready for next week.

 

 

 

and a shot of the attachment piece.

 

 

 

 

regards

Dave

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Looking good, I'll have two please.

 

In seriousness I would rather support your efforts than try and source the fabric and go it alone, so as soon as these are ready I will buy some for my car.

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Looking good, I'll have two please.

 

In seriousness I would rather support your efforts than try and source the fabric and go it alone, so as soon as these are ready I will buy some for my car.

 

Cheers Tom,

and I have to be honest and say that this exercise has been as much about convincing myself as you. I'm going all out this weekend to finish my work on these (bloody) covers. My dream was (somewhat naively) that I'd get the material , do the patterns and it would all be right in Dave's world. LIfes not like that , of course, but I won't be beaten and despite everything I will be launching product #2 very shortly. I will be in Sheffield next week to see my sister (Rivelin Valley Rd) so it would be good to meet up.

regards

Dave

Keep the faith

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi all,

I am bit cream crackered this morning as I've been watching the rugby (UK and world cup) most of the time over the weekend. Great stuff.

My black denim turned up this AM so I can restart my practice sewing this afternoon. I been following a thread on Rallye interiors and it's always interesting to hear about how the fabric degrades. These materials (Delcar and Roby) are curious in that they are foam and scrim backed and it's the failure of the foam which actually initiates the overall breakdown.

 

Modern fabrics use different adhesives and thus are less liable to degenerate under persistent UV exposure. If we look at the 2 sources that I have found 1) WT - Holland and 2) ASCI - Fr. the prices are very different ASCI's being 2x that of WT. You must always wonder why. If you examine the 2 fabrics they have different backings , the one is foam+scrim and the other is foam+ brushedcotton. Not sure it justifies the price differential mind you.

 

It is highly unlikely that original Rallye seat covers (intact) exist and will be for sale. But I would say don't be deterred by the nature of the OEM fabrics as I think the new ones will wear better. I still prefer the leather bolsters/alcantara inserts option though.

Rather curiously I heard from my cousin end of last week, she's launching a web site and her own product range. Was asking about this when it drops out of the general banter that she has a degree in Textile Technology - bugger me you could knocked me down with a brick. I've been trying to solicit info on potential insert fabric details from "experts" for quite a while and been getting nowhere.

Serendipity strikes again.(note to self - ask cuz out for dinner)

Keep the faith.

Dave

Shanghai here I come

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi all,

I bought a batch of the black rib cord cloth from WT (my stock code B09) which arrived this week. Interestingly when I got it un-wrapped and I had a better look at it, It was exactly the same as the original B09 I bought in the fire sale from William Marstons last year.You may recall that these charming people said that there was no more of this fabric being made and if I wanted more it would have to be a private commission (bit of a contradiction there mind ). WT also say that they can't get anymore (here we go again I thought) but fortunately they do have a significant amount in stock so we should be OK.

I've bust the bobbin case on my sewing machine and have had to send it off to be repaired, should be back later this week with any luck though.

My cunning plan was to act as a kind of production coordinator for my covers, providing finance, cut patterns,logistics etc, using 2 or 3 outworkers for piecing the covers together ( I wonder if thats the origin of the term - piece work ?). It puzzled me for ages why each machinist I tried couldn't actually do the job. My own early inexperience of trim assembly combined with dark mutterings from them about things location nicks, A to A seams, piece reversals, fifty pencing etc left me a bit confused, but also they could not seem to be able to explain to me what was going wrong - a classic deadly embrace

 

The old adage (always true really) of "if you want a job doing well, then do it yourself" still holds true. It also blindingly obvious that you shouldn't ask someone to a job if you can't do it yourself. Real production situations put you into a different working environment compared to "office" jobs. Interesting seeing how one copes when you are out of your comfort zone, n'est ce pas.

My education and training has always led me to have absolute faith in the mantra that there's nothing I can't do if I put my mind to it. Just me - I suppose but It's seen me through a hell of a lot of different things.

You may have (corrrectly) deduced that I am doing my own production now and I report that I am progressing in a satisfactory manner (busted machine delays aside). My seat covers and repair components are , therefore, most definitely bespoke.

Keep the faith.

regards

Dave

just got an email from a guy who used my site "free ad" page to find a 205 XS. Just wanted to say thanks - nice one.

D

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

HI all,

I am still working on my sewing, getting more confident as we go. Lost a week as my #2 machine was playing up and I had to send it off to London to get it fixed. No matter got it back now.

I've started work on the final sewing to be done on bolster covers and surrounds - the coloured top stitching each side of the seams. Strictly speaking this seam should be a French seam (with the red or green thread for the final reinforcing stitch). Peugeot didn't do it correctly and thats why the seams give way . Good to find these things out mind as it can only improve the final product.

Here's a quick piccy , sewn at 5mm stitch length - about the optimal I think.

 

 

 

Nice and straight don't you think. (it'll get better with practice )

 

Once I complete a full set I'll get the piccys on my site gallery

 

regards

Dave