How To Unseize A 1.9 Gti Rear Beam

[SurGie 54]

Hi Members,

 

My original 205 gti spec was going to have a 309 GTI beam on but since i bought some rare 7j alloys a 309 beam wont work for my recon-conversion 205 GTI. So i'm now going to get my original 205 beam reconditioned by a local firm to save postage etc. From the looks of things they also do specialised beam orders and grease nipples etc at a good price.

 

Well after having my 205 GTI on axle stands at the front for a few months a while ago, one side of my beam had seized but the other side was ok.

 

So after talking to rallysteve on here he suggested to take off one good side of the beam and poor diesel into the beam, which i hope helps to unseize that end, its the NS BTW.

 

Anyway last night i tried and tried to take the arm off with no luck, so i sprayed some Normfest fluid from ECP to see if that helps get rid of the rust inside the splines etc. Tonight i tried again but still no joy as i did not want to damage the arm too much.

 

So after thinking about it i realised i could use a Piece of those hardened wall rods that builders use and then make a recess inside it so it can go onto the shoulder bolt at the TB end that im trying to get out to take the arm off. Hey presto the TB came out well easy.

 

This is what i used to hammer the shouldered bolt against the TB VV

 

 

Here are a few pics of the bearings and shaft VV

 

 

As you can see the shaft has some bearing marks thats only at the top of the shaft, the under side is in perfect condition just like the inner end of the shaft is. The bearing is in fair condition also and not collapsed. With this in mind i think the other side will also be in the same sort of condition but just seized up. I hope its ok as i dont want to pay for a re-sleeve where the bearing would go.

[welshpug 1,655]

that's not seized

[SurGie 54]

Here are a few more pics VV

 

 

All being well after a few days of having the diesel inside the seized beam end that end will unseize ready for it to be taken to the beam refurb place.

 

Cheers

[Anthony 1,002]

Hate to tell you this, but 99% of the time if it's siezed then it's because it's scrap...

 

What generally happens is that seals or bearing fails, arm begins to camber as it wears through the bearing and begins ovalling the tube. Water gets into the beam, and the two metal on metal surfaces rust together and sieze the beam when it's left in one position for a while, typically either the car left parked up for extended periods (say over winter) or when the beam is off the car.

 

By all means try and get it apart, but I fear that you're wasting your time. If nothing else, look at the seals on the siezed end and see if they look knackered and if the shaft doesn't look to be sat straight/square - if so, get on the hunt for another beam tube.

 

(PS. grease nipples don't actually solve the underlying problem on the beam and what causes them to fail, and they are - IMO atleast - of questionable use)

[welshpug 1,655]

agreed on the grease nipples, one wonders how the grease would ever get into the bearings seeing as they have a small seal on them, unless the whole tube was full and pressurised with grease!

[SurGie 54]

Yeah i checked both sides to compare and they look the same where the seal is and the un-seized side had some camber, the seized side looks as it should camber wise. My car has been in the dry garage since May 08 and it was not seized then so it wont have had any water in the beam to seize it, it seized about the end of 2009. It could just be the bearings had zero grease which caused stiction to the shaft.

 

We will see in due coarse.

 

Cheers

 

EDIT, thats how i thought the grease nipples would work by filling it with loads of grease, then it would spread towards the bearings when the shaft moves during driving. I thought it would be better than leaving it with its original grease after a few years. I think i might have a grease nipple as close to each bearing as poss.

 

PS i will be having those oilite bronze type of bearings fitted, so if i had to have it re-sleeved im sure it wont make any difference.

 

Cheers.

Edited April 15, 2011 by SurGie

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

How comes you're paying someone else to recon your beam? I would have thought you'd have done it yourself.

[SurGie 54]

Ner, i have enough to sort out on the car as it is if i want it sorted by July time and i may need it to be sleeved. I also have a re-coned 309 gti beam, so i could just do a swap and have the 1.9 beam powder coated as part of their full recon service. As i sold the 309 arms to a lad on here needing a set i need the 1.9 arms to go with the 309 beam to swap/sell as one. I have some ZX arms that im using for this beam.

 

I hope the other side comes out else it will cost more than i have spare

 

If it works this can be a good source of info for other members.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

agreed on the grease nipples, one wonders how the grease would ever get into the bearings seeing as they have a small seal on them, unless the whole tube was full and pressurised with grease!

 

I fit a grease nipple to beams I do, inbetween the two bearings. The area does need to be filled with grease, but it does not take much grease to do this. Then putting a couple of shots in once a year is pressure enough to push the grease past the seals, they are only really debris seals. Pushing the grease across the bearing flushes out any contaminants and gives the shaft and rollers fresh grease to work with.

Only downside is that its messy when you strip one, but if it makes the shafts last its worth it IMO.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

In what way do you mean its seized?

Does the trailing arm rotate in the tube? Or the torsion bar seized into the arm?

[SurGie 54]

Sorry i should have been more clear...

 

The rear suspension on the NS wont move, its just solid in movement. I've not tried to remove this arm yet because it wont move up or down. Im going to see if the diesel helps unseize it to see if it starts to move up & down. If it does i will then remove it to see what state the bearing is on that side.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Good luck getting it apart, diesel or no diesel if its well and truly seized then often you can sledge hammer the trailing arm off the interference fit onto the shaft before the shaft will come free from the tube itself. I have a couple of tubes like that here.

[SurGie 54]

Thanks Tom, i know its not even been 24 hours since the diesel's been in the beam but i thought I'd try giving it some force to help the penetration today, no movement yet.

[SurGie 54]

Iv got a bit of an update tonight.

 

I tried to move the seized side and tonight it started to squeak, its never dont that before and it looks like its started to move a little bit. It never squeaked even when it was not seized, so i assume the diesel has just started to penetrate between the bearings.

 

I will update this at the weekend.

[SurGie 54]

Not good news tonight after having the diesel soaking for a week.

 

Iv had a go at taking the seized side out and its still the same.

 

Because the car was on axle stands the suspension was seized in the upwards position, which has made it harder to unseize when lifting that side up and slamming it onto the floor.

 

Worth a try i suppose, keep a look out for a wanted add.

[smithy 1]

i was told the only way to get a seized arm off is gas axe the tube open and then weld up,re metal and mill back to spec.

[SurGie 54]

Im not too sure about that way but i did thought of using a thin grinder disk to carefully cut between arm and beam. Then once the arm is off i could get the end of beam machined up to the bearing. Then again the bearing may have knackered the surface of the beam where the bearings go. At least the arm would be off in a easy way i suppose.

 

The end of the beam being knackered could get sleeve welded back to spec but then its going to coast too much compared to getting hold of a decent beam, and most likely less hassle and time.

[Alastairh 47]

i was told the only way to get a seized arm off is gas axe the tube open and then weld up,re metal and mill back to spec.

 

As Tom says above. When they are that bad, you often leave the shaft inside the tube. Personally, take the beam off the car and work with the beam on the floor. It is possible to remove stuborn arms without mullering them with a sledge. Then you'll need a new tube and a couple of shafts. Its not worth the hastle of re sleeving etc, just get another tube. They are getting rare, but they aren't that rare yet.

 

Personally, i don't bother with greese nipples.

 

Al

Edited April 27, 2011 by Alastairh

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

I would hit the arm off using a club hammer then slam the seized shaft into the ground using a pile driver motion, this should start moving the shaft, then using a long bar (scaffold tube?) and the hammer knock the shaft out from the inside.

[Eliganza 2]

How can you tell if a rear beam is shagged? Is there a thread somewhere I could read?

[SurGie 54]

Nice one Daviewonder, ill give that a try when i get round to it.

 

To see if a beam is in bad shape use a measuring caliper and measure the beam end and see if its a good circle or egg shaped or even rusted away also.

Edited April 27, 2011 by SurGie