[Car_Upgrade] 205 Rallye Mi16 Road/hillclimb Build

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Thread revival!

 

I've been living in Germany for the last two years and it was finally time to reunite with the Pug. Rented out a space in an ex garage, paid someone to bring it over on a trailer, they scrached and bent the underside of the car, but it was finally with me so that was all I cared about.

 

New home with car lift, compressor, vertical mill, professional mig welder and some other nice chaps restoring old cars to keep nice ompany:

 

I suspected one piston bolt had a knock so I stripped the engine, found the knocking piston, installed new everything including liners, put it back together, head developped a tap, stripped it down again, put a professionally refurbed head on and now it runs sweet.

 

Did the oil change yesterday after I took off the sump to adress some oil leaks. I now have 3 gaskets: block - gasket - spacer - gasket - sump baffle - gasket - sump. Hoping this will keep the precious Motul 15w50 Competition oil inside where it belongs. Also installed a brand new bung and copper seal because that also had a slight leak. One third of the sump screws have torn the thread, so I need to buy today longer screws and retap the ones that are beyond repair to M8.

 

Took me only 3 days of work to address all the oil leaks and I still have one with my left driveshaft, despite having installed a brand new oil ring from Peugeot. I suspect the shaft doesn't go in far enough after I installed the Quaife diff:

 

Also bought a new big baby seat and harness:

 

And a new standard exhaust as to not draw attention to myself from the Polizei. Also got an awesome chav sticker with that that basicly translates (in this room reighns the law of the street ):

 

Todo for the next days:

- sort the driveshaft oil leak

-straighten, pain and reseal the boot floor where the guys that brought the car bent it

-repaint the inside boot floor and the roll-cage black, again so that it doesn't catch the attention of the Polizei

-install the new back box so that I can quieten it down a bit for the same reason above and so that I can hear myself think on longer drives

 

And after that it will be ready for its first drive in the Schwarzwald .

Edited July 3, 2014 by unariciflocos

[Rjuhar 52]

Also got my new suspension, GHA fronts with 225 springs and Gold rears. Hope to save some money and upgrade the fronts by autumn.

 

Are these holes in the footwell or it just looks like that? Thought you said you sorted out rusty bits. And as for Romanians driving - I can confirm you're the worst - at least when driving through Slovenia tucked inside a cabin of a 20+ ton truck. We've just had 2 major accidents caused by Romanian truckers killing 5 people. It's not entirely their fault either as they are forced to drive thousands of kilometers with practically no stop so they often fall asleep.

 

But your car looks nice and the road - oh, the road - I will put it on my bucket list - I have to try it once!

Edited July 3, 2014 by Rjuhar

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

That was actually manure and mud .

 

As for the drivers, the infrastructure forces aggressive driving styles due to the lack of highways. If you want to get anywhere you'll average 40 50kmph on a long run. So you have to learn to overtake and be good at it. When driving across Europe I average 110kmph driving legally and with coffee breaks . Must have been just a coincidence, truck drivers get huge fines when they drive more than 8 hours a day. The truck drivers that tried to kill me more than once were Turkish.

 

And as for the worst drivers in the world, it takes a lot to scare me, but in India I was afraid for my life every second while in a car.

 

Take not it's only open 1st July to 1st of October. As for me, hope to make it to Stelvio this year, it's about 400 km from where I live. That's if the Swiss don't confiscate my car on the way there.

Edited July 3, 2014 by unariciflocos

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

So I had painted the boot floor with some kind of underseal for the inside, but it turned a nasty yellow colour from white and started coming off as sand so cleaned it and the wife helped repaint the inside.

 

After 3 coats of Hammerite:

 

New oil cooler from Chris_Mi here on the forum:

 

And new fog lights from Mark on the main page(bumper not fixed in place here):

 

 

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

So I've replaced the top mount rubers and bearings with new genuine items and installed my rose jointed bottom arms with new bushes after which I performed some smartphone and laser alignment. Inclinometer on the phone to get 2 deg of negative camber and the green string to dial in just a tiny bit of toe in.

 

 

The golden stuff everywhere is copper spray, I have a bit of a fobia of rust and stuck screws and nuts.

 

After a spirited drive in the Black Forest I've noticed 3 bigish problems:

 

1. Still surges on right hand turns with PTS style baffle and the shallower AC alloy sump. I've put one more liter of oil in to make a total of 6. If that doesn't cure it I'm ordering an Accusump.

 

2. Overheated when given full blast for an extended series of easy linked bends, with 13 row oil cooler. Don't know what to do about this.Suggestions? I'm thinking the engine is running much hotter because it's running extremely lean. Standard ECU on standard engine bar 11:1 comp. I'm planning to put the programmable VEMS on back over the weekend and see if that helps things.

 

3. Bit unstable at speeds over 130 140 mph (200 220 kmph) so had to slow down. The highway was a bit bumpy though. Before anyone jumps at me, mind you this is perfectly legal on the awesome german Autobahn. I'll try and play with the damping settings on the Gazs to see if it makes things better.

 

Is it normal for the car to feel oversteery now that I've fitted a limited slip diff?

 

Also won a set of OZ Ultraleggeras in 16 for next to nothing on ebay, will see how they look and feel, if not I will pass them on.

[2052NV 24]

Hey mate. I will say now that an accusump will help but isnt the final answer.

 

I had an alloy sump with PTS baffle kit and 2.5L Accusump, it still wasnt enough (im running coil overs and semi slicks). The next step was to source a deep tin sump (i got mine of a zx 1.8 diesel) and make my own trap door baffle system. The deep tin sump and spacer bracket holds 6.5L of oil. Note: you will need to make a pick up extension for the pump. Please see my thread below. Now the min oil pressure i get is about 2 bar..... i still get very breif surge when i come hard out of a corner straight into hard breaking which isnt such a big issue as my car is only a fun track day car so i can drive around it.

 

Hope that helps.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=157551&hl=

[2052NV 24]

Also i have a 16 row oil cooler mounted at the very front directly in air flow and mine was also still getting a bit hot. I wired up a switch to supply direct 12v to the radiator fans and have this on the whole time im on the track... Works a treat

 

And its a short wheel base almost square car so anything over 200 is going to be hairy! i did 200 on a bumpy NZ back road whilst running "tow out".... now that was a scary ride haha

 

What torsion bars and ARB do you run in the back?

Edited July 25, 2014 by 2052NV

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Thing is mine didn't overheat before. I was doing hillclimbs with much harsher abuse than now without an oil cooler and never ever overheated. That was also with the the carb or TB setup on so was running much more power. That's why I assumed running lean may be causing it. It'll take me an hour to install the VEMS on the weekend and I'll see.

 

I also used to drive 230 240 and car felt much much more planted. May have been that the road was better or maybe the new negative camber is making it more unstable at high speed. On a rainy day I'll put the standard bottom arms back, just need to order new bushes for them.

 

Surge wise, with my previous home made baffle the key was running enough oil. I added another liter when I got back home so I'm up to 6 liters now. I know people will cringe at the idea of 6 liters in such a shallow pan, but once the engine is on at least two of those 6 will be at all times somewhere in the head or circulating around the engine, so hopefully the crank won't froth it up. I'm also running coilovers and Hankook semi slicks. I'll take her out for a spin again tomorrow and see if it helped. The oil cooler and lines will certainly take some of that volume, so I'm sure I was simply not running enough oil.

 

Rear beam is bog standard. Was looking at some new bars from Torsion performance the other day but don't know what to get. Also want the car to behave nicely on the road. I'll also be looking at a new beam, the rear right arm has some slight play even though the bearings were replaced about 4k km ago (by previous owner).

Edited July 25, 2014 by unariciflocos

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

So, I opened the sump to see if there was any damage after the two surge moments I got, but everything looks tip top, or at least I think it does:

 

Aaand, I fitted new shoes! They look kind of chavy, but I've decided I'll keep them. 16 inch 7j ET16 Ultraleggeras wrapped in Michelin Pilot Exalto 195/45.

 

Working on putting the bodies back on and doing some mapping. Coulnd't get a hold of Colin Satchel for a set of trumpets so I ordered a set fom DanSt Eng. Hoping they'll do the job.

[welshpug 1,661]

bigger bars and better dampers will help.

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

The rear is running Golds, not GHAs if that changes anything. As it also needs to be rather comfy for day to day, I think I'll keep it as it is and switch to fixed platform group N Bilsteins. Adjustable damping is great for people who know what they're doing and can be fussed to mess about with it, but I'm leaning to more plug and play nowadays.

The standard bottom arms are going back on as soon as I find a set of OE bushes to fit to them. The car will be going through a German TuV soon and can't have any bodges on it.

[welshpug 1,661]

Being golds doesn't change anything, Ime bilstein perform better, have experienced both on 21mm bars, a good compromise on the road but depends on front spring rate.

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

On my last outing the clutch cable that had covered less than 1000km snapped and had to limp home in 3rd with lots of fun to be had in roundabouts trying to let others know that I can't and would prefer not to stop! Bought a new one from Peugeot that I'm expecting will last a bit more.

 

Tried to get a set of trumpets from Satchel but couldn't get any answer from them, so I ended up buying a set from DanST engineering. Decent quality, don't know about the performance figures they'll bring, but hoping for the best. They sit very close to the slam panel, not much room for the Pipercross PX600D I bought to go over them, so trying to re-angle both the inlet and exhaust manifolds so that they point further down. If anyone has an exhaust reangling plate I'm interested.

 

Now I'm in the process of making the car more TuV friendly, which means in particular no welded wishbones, TuV certified components only where safety is concerned so, last night I installed thse:

 

New Febi Bilstein wishbones. These were chosen because they're a quality item that's not ridiculously priced at 67 quid a corner. For some strange reason the left was different fro the right even though all part numbers matched. The right one is much more bulkier, reinforced and weighs in at 700g more than the left one which looks like any other wishbones I've seen until now. Tried contacting the supplier to get two identical ones but they were being difficult so in the end I just gave up and said it can't impact the performance of the car so I'll just isntall them as they are.

 

Almost horizontal with the new Eibach springs, not ideal, but not the end of the world.

 

Bilstein Challenge spec suspension with 106 Eibach Sportline springs:

 

Bought the car with the red calipers, I swear! Not that it would matter now with all the colors of the rainbow everywhere .

 

And look how pretty she is now, only about 1 cm lower than I had it previously on the Gaz coilovers:

 

 

Only issue is the anti roll bar seems to be rubbing on the left wishbone and the droplink catches on the damper pinch bolt when turning the steering wheel. It's always been like this, I assume the arb is bent on one side, so I've taken it off for the moment so that it doesn't foul my shiny new wishbones. Is it possible the arb was installed the other way around at some point in time?

 

 

Unfortunately I can almost certainly say it's not going to see the ring this year, but that's the way most projects go.

Edited October 1, 2014 by unariciflocos

[welshpug 1,661]

Check the length of the wishbones, 309 ones are plain, 205 are as pictured.

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

There's no difference in dimensions, just that one of them is bulkier, meatier, thicker. 4kg compared to 3.3 for the one that looks standard.

 

Picture paints a 1000 words.

 

Not the first problem I've had with Febi. I bought Febi arm bushes and they are 30 mm od instead of 31.

[welshpug 1,661]

Ah! I thought you meant they were plain like 309 arms, that is quite odd especially from the same brand!

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

I bought a Pipercross Px600 air filter and thought I'd install it and within an hour's time I could go for a ride. Well... 6 weeks into that job I had:

-reangled te inlet manifold so that the trumpets would clear the slam panel

-removed the slam panel anyway because I didn't want to cut it because it would have lost all rigidity and would have been useless

-installed Aerocatches to hold the bonnet now that there was no more slam panel

-installed an alloy L profile to replace the slam panel and keep the safety catch for the bonnet

-completely redid the wiring, rechecked the length and connector of each and every single wire, rewrapped everything in textile tape and routed everything nicely (the loom was originally made from scratch on my living room floor, so you can imagine the lengths weren't perfect to say the least)

-replaced a lot of the factory connectors with new AMP watertight connectors

-installed braided fuel lines and replaced my fittings and splitters with metal ones, as oposed to my old plastic T splitter, for the sake of not losing all my work in a fiery blaze

-replaced the Lambda probe as I noticed the onld one was jumping on either side of the correct value erraticly

-realized that I can't adjust my idle because the bodies are out of sync so I built a carb balancing kit with parts from the hardware store because I was too cheap to fork out 100 Euros for a factory made one. Doesn't look perfect, but at 45 Euros that's 55 spared to spend on other useless crap for the car.

-rerouted some water and oil hoses and changed almost all hose clips to stainless

-replaced the coolant pipe with an alloy one from a guy in the Netherlands, should outlast the car.

-reinstalled my washer bottle after 7 years of being off the car.

-and finally replaced my heat exchanger because the fresh antifreeze i put decided it was afraid of the dark and made its way to my footwell

 

After all of this it finally started today, could find a nice clean idle, didn't stink like gasoline in the garage any more, but the drive will have to wait until next year as I don't have winter tires and my insurance has expired.

 

Basically I knew I wouldn't be driving it any more this year so I properly redid every single bodge that I did in a hurry before a race in the past. We all know that if a bodge works it's highly likely that it will never be touched again.

 

If anyone else is like me they'll just scan through the text in a second and look for the pictures, so, while the stuff I did wasn't very interesting, here are some pictures anyway:

 

They worked! All 4 branches balanced nicely to -0.45 bars at idle.

To people who don't realize how messy it was before it probably still looks messy, but I'll repaint the engine bay in the next year, to me it's a million times better than before.

 

This one is so good that I could add "Photography" to my name on Facebook.

Edited November 22, 2014 by unariciflocos

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

One question, I've heavily Loctited the velocity stacks screws and applied generous amounts of torque, should I be worried that one of them will come loose and ge eaten up by the engine?

 

Would there be a detrimental effect on performance if I installed some kind of sieves as on old formula one cars just in case?

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

So we went for a second drive around the Black Forest this Sunday and I loved it. Had the laptop on the passenger side doing closed loop tuning and it's running quite nice now.

 

Only one minor incident ofcourse. At one point when tidying up my wiring harness I had this train of thought in my mind: "Maybe I should replace the CPS connector, the safety is broken and the cable is a bit too short and this has the potential to leave me stranded on the side of the road if it fails... Naah, can't be bothered, it'll be fine.".... soooo, a month later, while overtaking and carrying some speed up some mountain bends the engine died out of the blue. I did have enough momentum to make it to the first parking spot on the side of the road, just to find that the connector had come out. It was actually the very first thing I checked after I popped the bonnet.

 

 

It's still surging on right handers, will have to put more oil in. Oil pressure is rock solid 2-3 bars idle and 6 bars at all time while driving. While on the topic of oil, I've moved the filler pipe a bit just as in the photo belo, and obviously after a very spirited drive my radiator an gearbox are one big oily mess:

 

Any suggestions for installing a catch can, or a type of catch can?

[JeffR 51]

One question, I've heavily Loctited the velocity stacks screws and applied generous amounts of torque, should I be worried that one of them will come loose and ge eaten up by the engine?

 

If my misfortune with the stack bolts coming loose is any guide, I'd be driiling some hex bolts and lockwiring them in. You don't want this to happen-

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=143279&page=8

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Thanks Jeff, it was actually after reading your project thread that I decided to Loctite them. I'll put it on the TODO list.

In the meantime I'm trying to find a solution to properly vent the crankcase and aparently it's not that easy with ITBs.

[JeffR 51]

I used the basic standard set up mounting the plastic catch can to a bracket off one of the starter motor bolts, chopped up a set of Baker hoses to extend them and ran a hose from the filler cap to a 2 litre catch can.

No issues with filling it as you would if venting the cam cover breather into one.

 

[Anthony 1,003]

In the meantime I'm trying to find a solution to properly vent the crankcase and aparently it's not that easy with ITBs.

From what I can see in your photo, it looks like the filler/breather hoses both point downwards so that the lowest point is not the block end of the hose but rather half way along the hose. What tends to happen is that the breather and filler hoses get full of oil which can't return to the sump, and then crankcase pressure forces the oil up and out of the filler all over the gearbox.

 

Re-arrange the hoses so that they go downwards from the filler to the block and that the block is the lowest point, and that setup you've got now will probably work far better and not liberally cover the gearbox with oil.

 

You can vent the filler cap to a catch tank as required, but sort the hoses out first otherwise you'll end up with a lot of oil in the catch tank!

 

Shame, as what you've done actually looks quite neat otherwise unlike most Mi16's on ITB's.

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'll buy some silicone hoses and change the config.

 

BTW never buy anything from www.mespiecesauto.com, they screwed me over with a set of silicone hoses that never made it to me and now won't answer emails, phone calls, anything.

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Thatnks for the input Jeff and Anthony, I more or less replicated the default oil breather system and I get nothing out the top hose anymore, so happy days.

 

Upgraded brakes to Tarox Japan 283mm disks + GTI180 calipers and DS3000 pads. Not sure I'm happy with this setup to be honest, front locks up in an instant, guess I need to get used to it.

 

At the same time I switched to 1.9 hubs with new SKF breaings as one of my hubs was ovaled, and new SKF drive shafts. Not over the moon considering one of them is made in China, but let's hope their quality control is good. When we speak to suppliers in China through my job we ask them if their product obeys certain standards and they just say, tell me what you want me to write on it and I'll do it, so hoping SKF is different.

 

 

Now the full front drivetrain is completely new and hoping for no issues on the drive I've planned to Italy at the end of June.

 

After everything I covered my dear toys nicely and will be spending some time with the Jaguar, that has just come back from the painter.