Ooh Dear... Ooj's Days Are Numbered!

[kyepan 291]

Not at all pyepan. I would be a sheep if my opinions were the same as everyone else's. As if anyone wants negative rants in the first place.

 

It was merely an observation. Forum members are enthusiast for the 205 and as this car has had a few of them, im surprised that all of them let this 205's rust get so bad its not realistically repairable now. How can that be unrealistic and your post is off topic BTW.

 

Now sure what that ^^ picture is suppose to be, is it a smug face or laughing face ??

 

It was a commentary on the topic, rather than unrelated to the topic.. so not on topic or off topic but parallel to it.

 

I would say you're comment was more off topic, because of it's contrary and cloaked critical nature, the subtext of your comment was that the people who owned it were all forum members and they did not maintain it properly, implying that we do not practice what we preach. This is quite insulting because we all know the level of effort involved to keep a 205 going.

 

Because of the sheep comment, you seem to be aware of your own contrary opinion taking, so at least we can clear up that you're deliberately posting in this manner. That means your insulting comment to pretty much everyone on the forum was also deliberate.

 

You may understand that you are being deliberately contrary, but i don't think you understand the emotional impact behind the things you are saying.

 

Hopefully that explains the relevancy of my original comment.

 

The picture is a trollface, look it up.

 

Cheers

 

suckered yet again DOH.

 

J

Edited March 9, 2011 by kyepan

[SurGie 54]

You dont half talk a load of cr*p making something out of nothing

[kyepan 291]

You dont half talk a load of cr*p making something out of nothing

 

I'm bang on, based on that response.

 

If it was nothing then you wouldn't have got so many replies quoting your comment.

 

Have a read of my post again eh.

 

 

still being trolled... lemmingzappa.. help.

Edited March 9, 2011 by kyepan

[lemmingzappa 75 1 Cars]

[allye 530 3 Cars]

this had turned into another stupidly off topic and pointless debate!

 

It sounded like a cracking car that had the nuts driven off it and had a good life.

[Alastairh 47]

Just donor it, I still need the NSF wing!

[Bonzai 2]

It sounded like a cracking car that had the nuts driven off it and had a good life.

 

I had a million memories in the 5 years i owned it.

 

Highlights include receiving praise from other drivers, a Maserati Coupe owner explaining to his young son why this "rally car" had rinsed his expensive italian beauty on the a4069 out of Brynamman, the BMW M Coupe pilot who asked how i managed to tame the B4235 from Chepstow to Usk without hardly touching the brake pedal, the 996 GT2 driver who just wanted to shake my hand (whilst his wife claimed i must be insane) after leading him from Hereford to Abergavenny on the A465. Memories like these put a huge smile on my face.

 

Even the occasion at Nurburgring when giving a passenger lap to a friend of a friend, the gearbox input shaft sheared on the exit of mini karussel, still makes me happy. How many cars can you drive through 5 countries in one day, break a gearbox one day, swap it the next AND get another lap in before the end of the before returning home again? Certainly sure i would be still paying for it now if i had done it in my current steed.

 

How about the night i returned home after completing the Mi conversion, just a few miles from the severn bridge crossing, the engine completely died. The recovery crew was convinced the cambelt had snapped and destroyed the engine, but i had more faith than that, and the next day Mikey G traced the fault to a loose connection on the coil pack and once again i was free to enjoy 16valve goodness.

 

Just remember now the bloke who stopped walking when he heard my Mi idling lumpy at traffic lights, gave me the thumbs up and encouraged me to entertain his ears.

 

I could own my Honda for the rest of my life and still not enjoy it asmuch as i enjoyed OOJ in my time

[SurGie 54]

Apologies Baz that your thread turned into off topic debate.

 

I never meant to offend any one by my original post nor was i trying to get people to rant at me, i have much better things to be getting on with in my life than all this s*it . Basically it seems from the view of that troll that my opinions are viewed as lies, of which they are not. My sheep comment has been taken out of context again and lets have less of this phycology s*it.

 

Back on topic

[welshpug 1,657]

I remember walking past this car several times when I lived round the corner and right across the park from Ben before I had a 205 and was on this forum, no doubt I'd have bought one along the way anyway, but I think seeing this one reminded me of the 205 gti often enough to want one.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

Nice write-up, Ben!

[lemmingzappa 75 1 Cars]

Apologies Baz that your thread turned into off topic debate.

 

I never meant to offend any one by my original post nor was i trying to get people to rant at me, i have much better things to be getting on with in my life than all this s*it . Basically it seems from the view of that troll that my opinions are viewed as lies, of which they are not. My sheep comment has been taken out of context again and lets have less of this phycology s*it.

 

Back on topic

 

Heh, by the way I wasn't being too serious with the troll pic, I just like the face

Here is the rear of my car for example:

 

 

[Baz 421]

Nice little report Ben! But makes what i've been up to feel even worse...

 

 

Got the front end apart, gave it a gentle tug by hand;

 

 

 

 

Still thinking it's worth repairing Surgie? I guess in some eyes it would be, but tbh the whole shell is a bit 'banana'd', i reckon the cage is holding the majority together! The passenger door didn't really fit in it's aperture, driver's wasn't much better, the whole NS inner wing under the washer bottle is a semi-tidy but large welded-in plate, there's 2 dirty great plates welded (Mot standard but no more) on the floor pan & could probably do with 2 more little ones, both sills would need doing, certainly an inner sill on the OS too, both sides of the tank's crusty to the point i can get 2 fingers up into the rear quarter, rear seat well's are surprisingly good as is the boot floor, but i've haven't really investigated them much yet - but essentially i know they'll basically be knackered, certainly once they've been 'investigated' properly anyway!

 

I stand by the fact that, IMO anyway, it's uneconomical to repair. Even if it wasn't for the damage the rust is alot to take on, hence that opinion isn't just based on worth, love or similar, i value my time and effort at more, to the point i'd find it easier given how setup i am to do such things, just to re-shell it should i need to. When it gets to the point where shells are hard to come by or expensive (ala Escort Mk1/2's) then it might be a different story, but i'd still hazard a guess that most would see this as not worth it.

[SurGie 54]

That is bad, thats worse than my 4 door 1986 GT, and thats a fairly bad rust bucket however the sills on it are good on average.

 

I think that some shells were better sealed than others as my 92 K reg has hardly any compared to my old F reg i had, of which was worse than my D reg GT and all of them had done around the dame mileage based on the speedo reading.

[Baz 421]

Yeah i think most of OOJ's sealant and galvanising had probably been quite affected amongst the crash damages & repairs.

[mainline 2 1 Cars]

Hi Baz is OOJ the car you were driving when we met and I picked up my interior? I think it must have been, it looks like the same one, in fact yeah I think I remember you telling me it had been written off a couple of times so it must me. Very sad to see such a legendary vehicle heading to the scrappers, but it sounds like it did more in its relatively long life than 90% of the other 205s on this website. Farewell OOJ, long live the 205 GTI!

[Baz 421]

Indeed i think it was yes.

[Baz 421]

Ok, more distressing pictures while i remember!!

 

 

Boot floor was pretty much held together with paint & underseal;

 

 

 

 

OS Rear Bumper mount & inner arch pretty much gone;

 

 

 

And i've never seen such before, but in the scuttle panel area, above the fuse-box etc!!

 

 

 

 

The cabin/seat mounts and general floor condition are pretty awful too, had i known before i thionk i would've stopped using it a looong time ago!!

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Jesus that's bad

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

This is nothing compared to what the Ford boys have to deal with. Most S2 RS turbos are a lot worse than this now and regularly are repaired. I just hope in a couple of years there a few left and the forum breaking bug dies a death.

 

Baz, im not attacking you mate but there are a frightening amount of breaking topics from you, they maybe a money spinner but lets just remember we are enthusiasts and when these cars are gone, they are gone forever.

 

Maxi

[Anthony 1,003]

Whilst I agree in the jist of that, I don't think that the comparison with a Ford of the same era is particularly valid.

 

Thanks to 205's being very well rustproofed compared to just about anything else from the 80's, there are a lot more of them still around, and tidy-ish, largely rust-free examples are still available for comparative peanuts - just go on eBay or the like and you'll see loads of pre-Phase 2 1.6 GTi's going for a few hundred quid. All the time that is still the case, the number of people that are going to spend the time and money restoring a rusty, bent, written off example like OOJ are few and far between (in the UK atleast)

 

An 80's Ford on the other hand, there are generally two types of car available from what I can see - a tidy, rust-free example that's mega-money, or one that has rust and needs repair. Cheap, rust-free examples are like hens teeth, and the value of the cars means that it is worth repairing and fixing them.

 

I'd hazard a guess that say 10 years ago, 80's Fords were where 205's are today - there was still plenty of them around, not worth a great deal, and hence cars with rust and accident damage were routinely scrapped and broken for parts. Hell, I'm sure that at one point Mk2 Escorts with a dinged wing were scrapped routinely, and now look at them - people are paying good money and restoring shells that look like they've spent 5 years at the bottom of a lake.

 

In 5 years time, I have no doubt that people will be restoring cars like OOJ because values and lack of supply of good, cheap shells with make it viable. Right now unfortunately, such shells aren't worth more than scrap, and complete but rusty cars are worth far more in pieces than they are intact. At least cars like this being broken provide a supply of parts to keep other cars on the road, as supply and availability of various parts is now becoming an issue, and that will only get worse as more and more becomes NLA from Peugeot, and aftermarket suppliers stop making the bits (as has already happened with many 309 parts for example)

 

As an enthusiast though, it's always sad to see one scrapped, as that's another one gone and the numbers are dwindling, just like other classics that have gone before.

 

Of course, this train of thought could lead onto those that are buying - and in many eyes, ruining - perfectly good cars by gutting them for track days etc...

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

Mm, exactly. Breaking cars for parts is a necessecary evil (not in the dramatic sense ) to slowly increase the relative rarity to make shells worth keeping. Eventually the point will come where most 205s are worth keeping, but we are a long way off that.

Saying that, I was crazy enough to save my shell, which was far beyond economic repair

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

I do take into account what has been said above but I think this problem of our beloved breed will creep up and bite us on the arse a lot quicker than we all think. To me it just seems there are WAY too many cars being broken these days and worringly, it seems to be by this community, the one supposed friend the little car has.

 

Clean shells dont exist anymore. They have all been repaired at some point but they all have the sill rust problem, not to mention around the screen, floor pans, inner wings. Granted, there are a tiny handful not rotten but these are like hens teeth, especially phase 2 GTis.

 

Im not directly having a go at Baz and I understand not everything can be saved but im sure I see at least one breaking thread per week. Lets not hope we are aiding the premature death of the model.

 

As for "Track Cars", dont even get me started. How many for sale threads have we seen on here, ebay, etc of track day projects. Rip out the interior because they have seen someone do it on a forum, then lose interest or realise they dont have the skills to finish preparing the vehicle, get bored, leave it stand in the garden for 5 years, then sell it for scrap. Its criminal.

 

 

Maxi

[Baz 421]

I do take into account what has been said above but I think this problem of our beloved breed will creep up and bite us on the arse a lot quicker than we all think.

 

It already has, i can understand how you missed it though.

 

You might see one breaking thread per week, but they'll be the same ones, i still have the same ones running from 6 or so months ago (black & white 205's) and i think one's about a year old (Miami Mi). I certainly don't break a 205 per week, i really couldn't be arsed tbh. I buy a car because i want it, if it turns out to be a shed, it gets whatever it's worth, i'll always try to save those that are viable to do so, given i'm in a positio to and have the parts to put them right again and get them back out there to be used and enjoyed! But the majority aren't worth it unfortunately, and when you have a few at a time, this happens quite frequently. I'm also a fan of buying ones that to a point, many people don't want, half prepared track-cars as you say or donor shell/cars, sometimes they're beyond economic repair or un-returnable to standard before i get my hands on them, you think how many parts one person with one 205 might need, i keep a small fleet of 205's as it is and look after another bunch, including a few competition & rallyschool cars so you can imagine the parts i get through.

 

Probably pretty much akin to all those BX's & 405's you killed for a lot less of a reason over the years Adam, where as at least i'm making use of them, there's also always a damn good reason why i'll break one rather than sell it on, and to a point it's only been more recently that a few have been broken rather than sold, tbh the ratio of ones i've sold rather than broken is still probably around 5:1 easily.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Youre right Baz, I have killed lots of BX's and 405's over the years, in aid to save the breed we all love. I do regret breaking so many BX's to be honest, as I much prefer them to 405's. I do stress however, I am a 205 enthusiast and will therefor break any other model to keep the 205 going as long as poss.

 

As stated before, this isnt a personal attack on you Baz, I am just very aware of how many cars ARE getting broken on this forum at the moment. Over the many years ive been on the forum there have been fashions or Fads, unfortunately a topic will come up on the forum and then everyone and their mother will copy it. Whether its an mi conversion, painting everything in sight under the bonnet, 2.0 turbo conversions, stripping the car for track use, sourcing sl434's, having goodwood style rims, 309 beams, back to 205 beams, rallye arches, 405 wiper blades, god awful 2 ton xm leather seats, 405 illuminated window switches, 405 wiper blades, bx dials, clio rear wipers, xsara vts boxes, 309 lower arms and so the list goes on and on.........all of these have been fashions. The last hurrendous fashion was to turn every 205 into a poxy track car and ruining it (90% of the time), im worried the next fashion is to break your car as you can earn a quid or two from it.

 

Maxi

[Baz 421]

I disagree, it's not worth going to the effort & hassle of breaking a car for a few quid, so i only break ones that are really beyond economic repair. The goodwood i have now for example, it looks a lovely car with shedloads of potential from the outset, but when you start picking round it, despite being very tidy in all the common places, it has 2 spots of grot that's properly taken hold and another 10-odd smaller issues that add up to alot of time and money.

 

We are reaching the days when you can't buy a 205 for a ton, or even a couple and make money off it easily. This is not why i do it and i have the hardest time making the decision, plus i'll always offer something whole if it's worth it to someone in a better position to restore, before breaking it.

 

But i have to remind myself when i get carried away; self preservation has to come before old pug preservation unfortunately!!

Edited April 22, 2011 by Baz