Ew10j4 Lump

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

I've had a complete, low-mile 206 GTi engine in my garage for a while now and it's getting annoying having it in the way. Can't seem to shift it so was thinking of pulling it to pieces. Is there any parts worth keeping for XU 16v engines? Heard the crank fits and is an 88 item.

 

Or is it worth keeping complete?

[tony perks 1]

I've had a complete, low-mile 206 GTi engine in my garage for a while now and it's getting annoying having it in the way. Can't seem to shift it so was thinking of pulling it to pieces. Is there any parts worth keeping for XU 16v engines? Heard the crank fits and is an 88 item.

 

Or is it worth keeping complete?

the crank may be 88 but the journal size is the same as 1.6 xu, and tu engines, if you want to shift it what do you want for it my mate was looking for one?

[welshpug 1,645]

stick all of it on a 205 with bodies

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

stick all of it on a 205 with bodies

 

Give me a good reason why I should, when I have a rebuilt 1.9 Mi16, an S16 and GTi6 lumps sitting the garage. Are these EW lumps 'that' good?

[welshpug 1,645]

They're not bad

 

They do produce more torque than the xu for some reason, and they are lighter, I know Sandy has built one or two now with good success.

[James504 12]

EW>XU

[Sandy 191]

I like them Alot more issues to overcome than XU for a serious engine, but ultimately lighter and better.

[edbar 6]

What about mounts and gearbox etc, I'd be tempted by a gti 180 engine on bodies!

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Hilgie says:

-custom drivers side mount

-Be4 flywheel housing on Be3 box or Be4 box

-shorter bottom arm fork

-longer clutch cable

-406 cable shift

 

http://www.hilgertbos.com/gallery/marcvogels/P8240045

 

Nice meeting you on Sunday Ed, your car or you AND your car looked proper fast on track.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

I like them Alot more issues to overcome than XU for a serious engine, but ultimately lighter and better.

 

Interesting, any more information on modifying them and results? (Goes off to find Longman website)

[edbar 6]

Hilgie says:

-custom drivers side mount

-Be4 flywheel housing on Be3 box or Be4 box

-shorter bottom arm fork

-longer clutch cable

-406 cable shift

 

http://www.hilgertbos.com/gallery/marcvogels/P8240045

 

Nice meeting you on Sunday Ed, your car or you AND your car looked proper fast on track.

 

 

Was great to meet you too, always nice to meet others with intrest in racing 205s. sandys orange 206 with the ew10 engine sounds incredible and goes like the clappers!!!

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

(Goes off to find Longman website)

 

Or just PM Sandy, he's build some amazing engines.

[welshpug 1,645]

Indeed, he has worked on the aforementioned orange 206 that was originally a Longman engine and improved on it I believe

[Sandy 191]

Yes, thankfully it worked out ok! Over a second/lap quicker on his first time out than he'd ever gone with the Longman engine, which I was both pleased with and relieved about! The old engine had dropped a valve, destroying the head, piston (set needed), followers. I couldn't get replacment pistons, so had to adapt some of my XU race ones, new block, did a new head for it (myself), changed springs/followers designs, completely re-desigined the inlet manifold/bodies/trumpets and changed to DTA (I wasn't confident enough in EFI at the time). End result 279bhp and 195lbft on calibrated/corrected engine dyno.

 

[edbar 6]

Holy feck!!!! New that it shifted sandy but that is just silly! IO supppose its not an economical swap for a 205 though? Always liked the idea of one but been put off with the potential hassle of the conversion and tuning it.

[black lad 0]

Your a genius sandy

[Sandy 191]

LoL, don't know about that, but thanks!

 

I've got one that I'm hoping to build up and put in my 205 when I have the time and money. I was put off initially by the number of failed ones that seemed to be about, but I think if you're wanting to build a half decent engine anyway, with most of the internals replaced, it's a good engine. As light as the alloy XU, but with closed deck block and crank ladder rigidity, the oil drains from the head are massive in comparison too, admission of guilt maybe? There are a few issues, oil pump is known to fail, small cam followers, small valves, shorter block than XU10, but the 180 and EW12 engines address some of the issues as standard.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

I've got one that I'm hoping to build up and put in my 205 when I have the time and money. I was put off initially by the number of failed ones that seemed to be about, but I think if you're wanting to build a half decent engine anyway, with most of the internals replaced, it's a good engine. As light as the alloy XU, but with closed deck block and crank ladder rigidity, the oil drains from the head are massive in comparison too, admission of guilt maybe? There are a few issues, oil pump is known to fail, small cam followers, small valves, shorter block than XU10, but the 180 and EW12 engines address some of the issues as standard.

 

Think I'll keep hold of the engine for now then, would be a shame to pull to pieces as its only got 60k on it. Might have to consider this conversion if I decide to go nuts with the 205 (E30s keep tempting me away though).

 

Is there anywhere I can have a read, I've had a gander at 206info and gleaned 'some' info but most of it's about 'Which is the best air filter'

[welshpug 1,645]

there's some info here http://www.hilgertbos.com/gallery/marcvogels

 

was there anything more specific you wanted to know?

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Anything really. The spec of that engine Sandy has built, and any others would be of interest. Aftermarket performance parts are obviously available.

 

Got to say, love the sound of the EW12. A 2.2litre engine (160hp & 160Ib/ft) with off the shelf parts from Pug, only issue being the blocks apparently 10mm taller than the EW10. Find a 406 with that engine and the cable shift, and I'm halfway there. Shame they're rare

Edited February 18, 2011 by Alan_M

[Sandy 191]

EW12 block is about the same height as XU alloy block, sits more upright though. I haven't got far into it yet, but when I start putting mine in the 205, i'll probably report what I find.

 

The spec of that race engine isn't something i'll be divulging in detail I'm afraid! The standard EW10J4 206GTI motor is quite limited in medium spec form, by small followers (28.4mm) and top hat stem seals that make fitting double valve springs tricky. The standard valve springs will limit cam choice, as will similar room issues to the GTI6 for lift at TDC. Throttle bodies are the obvious starting point IMO, for the broad gains a good set up is likely to bring on an otherwise standard engine. The Jenvey manifold is pretty nasty though, carrying a heavy offset for the ancillaries clearance that isn't likely to be an issue in the 205. Because of the problems with fitting aftermarket management and TBs to modern integrated wired cars, this route has not been popular on the 206; indeed I was asked to do a 180 last year and had to decline the job at a late stage (not ideal really!), because of the potential problems with the BSI system that could take it way beyond what can normally be reasonably charged for an installation! Early normal 206 GTIs don't have the Multiplex/BSI however.

 

What I'd like to do with mine is build a smaller capacity engine, ie XU7 crank (81.4mm) with the EW12 bore (86mm) for 1890cc oversquare. 1.9 has a nice ring to it and i'd like to make it fairly economical and try a few things that could achieve that with good power. A small warning shot though, check out the price of EW thrust washers.... you might want to save the old ones!

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

EW12 block is about the same height as XU alloy block, sits more upright though. I haven't got far into it yet, but when I start putting mine in the 205, i'll probably report what I find.

 

The spec of that race engine isn't something i'll be divulging in detail I'm afraid! The standard EW10J4 206GTI motor is quite limited in medium spec form, by small followers (28.4mm) and top hat stem seals that make fitting double valve springs tricky. The standard valve springs will limit cam choice, as will similar room issues to the GTI6 for lift at TDC. Throttle bodies are the obvious starting point IMO, for the broad gains a good set up is likely to bring on an otherwise standard engine. The Jenvey manifold is pretty nasty though, carrying a heavy offset for the ancillaries clearance that isn't likely to be an issue in the 205. Because of the problems with fitting aftermarket management and TBs to modern integrated wired cars, this route has not been popular on the 206; indeed I was asked to do a 180 last year and had to decline the job at a late stage (not ideal really!), because of the potential problems with the BSI system that could take it way beyond what can normally be reasonably charged for an installation! Early normal 206 GTIs don't have the Multiplex/BSI however.

 

What I'd like to do with mine is build a smaller capacity engine, ie XU7 crank (81.4mm) with the EW12 bore (86mm) for 1890cc oversquare. 1.9 has a nice ring to it and i'd like to make it fairly economical and try a few things that could achieve that with good power. A small warning shot though, check out the price of EW thrust washers.... you might want to save the old ones!

 

Would be great if you could pass any info on when you shove it into a 205. I got the extra 10mm from the 206info forum, so not the most reliable. They also mention on that site, that by swopping the inlet manifold from the EW12 to an EW10 can give excellent gains. Coupled with decent exhaust, again I've read on 206info the standard EW10 item is rubbish, you should be getting decent XU like power.

 

I've a decision to make, do a big capacity XU or try out this EW conversion (or an E30 ).

[James_m 0]

The thing is though.... if there is no interchangability with xu mounts, driveshafts etc there is little point in sticking with peugeot engines, when you could just buy a k20 which will probably still make more power than a modified EW, have vastly better reliability, resale value and one of the best gearboxes in the car world irrespective of price...

[welshpug 1,645]

driveshafts would be standard 205/309 items, it's only the top arm I believe that is required to fit an EW.

[edbar 6]

The thing is though.... if there is no interchangability with xu mounts, driveshafts etc there is little point in sticking with peugeot engines, when you could just buy a k20 which will probably still make more power than a modified EW, have vastly better reliability, resale value and one of the best gearboxes in the car world irrespective of price...

 

 

As the xu's are all getting a little old this might be the way the trend starts to go in the future, once a few have done the conversion and the knowledge is out there im sure we would see more. Personally I'm not a fan of differant marque engine swaps, mk2 escort with xe's pugs with k20's just seems wrong to me. Im not however saying that financially it would perhaps make more sense and that the k20 is pants because lets face it they are an awesome lump, I just couldnt live with having a honda power plant would buy a civic if I wanted that. Dont know if im alone on this?