Problems After Engine Swap

[Carbs4me 45]

Hello All,

 

Ive just finished putting in my 1900 in my 205, with no supprize i have a problem.

 

When you start the engine, it fire's on all cyclinders for a couple of seconds then cuts out... if you rev the car it instantly kills it.

 

The engine i got is 180BHP... will the standard fuel pump run this sort of power?

 

Should the fuel pump prime when key is fully turned? (without turning the starter motor) no fuel comes though with fuel line off the injector rail, only when starter motor spins.

 

Also the engine is the one with the coil pack on the inlet manifold, im running it on a coil that is strapped to the inside of my engine bay (next to ignition amp) will it need the coil that fits on the inlet manifold ?

 

Fly wheel sensor, mine has broke. would it need this to run? when i took the other engine out it was not pluged into anything.

 

With this been the engine model above mine, will i need the ECU or are they the same?

 

Im quite confident that everything ive plumbed up on the engine is correct.

 

When it runs for the few seconds i can get it to, its NOT missing spulltering etc....

Edited February 14, 2011 by Carbs4me

[welshpug 1,657]

The engine i got is 180BHP

 

 

what engine is it?

[Carbs4me 45]

1.9 8v

Edited February 14, 2011 by Carbs4me

[welshpug 1,657]

used the original loom?

 

you need to use whichever coil fits your wiring loom, whichever ecu matches your AFM and injectors, preferably one for your engine.

 

Bar the cat engines no 8 valve 205's ECU used a TDC sensor, purely for diagnostics purposes.

 

 

Oh and it will not be 180 bhp.

[TT205 42]

Oh and it will not be 180 bhp.

 

[cough] Longman? [/cough]

 

standard injection though? - maybe not then!

Edited February 14, 2011 by TT205

[welshpug 1,657]

on a standard inlet manifold?

[TT205 42]

Sorry Mei

 

Corrected my post but you were in there like one of those fast things up a drainpipe!

[Carbs4me 45]

ok, mines the early model of the 205 which i believe that the engine is out of a later model.

 

ive got the ECU from the car that had this engine in, aswell as the ignition amp, coil and AFM.

 

Well thats what i fought. i heard you could only get 160BHP at most, but i have a read out of 172BHP to be exact...its been in the hands of some motor head manic's from kirkham that build 205 trackday cars all day aswell a various other track toys... i said 180 to make sure that i didnt need a after-market fuel pump to run the extra power.

[welshpug 1,657]

if it really was 172 then you wont be able to run it very well at all on the original ecu and inlet manifold.

 

127 is more likely

 

Easiest way to wire it all in is to plug the ecu that came with the engine to your original loom, same with the AFM, use your original coil.

 

Fuel pump should be fine if its not knackered.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Ok, back to the problem. One possibility - it sounds to me like your pump isn't staying on once running (hard to tell sometimes as the noise of the engine means you can't hear it). I've seen issues with our old friend the tachymetric relay where if it doesn't pick up the crank signal once running, then it won't keep the fuel pump running - so you sometimes get it priming fine, enough to start the car up, but then the fuel soon runs out as the pressure drops in the rail without the pump running. Mind you, sounds like you're not even getting it priming except on turn of the starter, which isn't right (if it's all on a standard management).

 

One to look at; verify the fuel pump is still running after cranking?

[smithy 1]

Ok, back to the problem. One possibility - it sounds to me like your pump isn't staying on once running (hard to tell sometimes as the noise of the engine means you can't hear it). I've seen issues with our old friend the tachymetric relay where if it doesn't pick up the crank signal once running, then it won't keep the fuel pump running - so you sometimes get it priming fine, enough to start the car up, but then the fuel soon runs out as the pressure drops in the rail without the pump running. Mind you, sounds like you're not even getting it priming except on turn of the starter, which isn't right (if it's all on a standard management).

 

One to look at; verify the fuel pump is still running after cranking?

 

dont know why but some 205's prime when ignition turned on some dont,mine does not it runs as soon as ignition key is turned to start position and once running it is then powered by the tachy relay via the signal from dizzy sensor/coil.

 

with the problem OP has i would suspect the problem lies with wiring on ignition system or as above the tachy relay.

 

mine is also a 1.9 8v

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

dont know why but some 205's prime when ignition turned on some dont,mine does not it runs as soon as ignition key is turned to start position and once running it is then powered by the tachy relay via the signal from dizzy sensor/coil.

 

with the problem OP has i would suspect the problem lies with wiring on ignition system or as above the tachy relay.

 

mine is also a 1.9 8v

The AFM needs to be reading in order for the fuel pump to run. Are you sure the AFM is plugged in securely? I have a habit of forgetting to plug mine back in and it does exactly what you are describing. As said before you need the 1.9 ECU and you need to be making the most out of the original loom in the car because some of the wires changed over positions in the the underdash multiplugs for some reason.

[Carbs4me 45]

Thanks,

 

I will try all these, the car was orginally a 1.9 on a F reg, the engine i have is from a newer model i am almost certain as there are afew things that are not the same on the engine, such as dizzy (which is a screw on and mine orginal one was clip on) and the plug round the back of the engine as where mine had a metal piece with a plug on it and two pipes on either side of it one to the engine the other to the bulk head, i presume this is the water temp.

 

I checked my air flow meter 3 times even changed it to my orginal one, and made sure i didnt put it on back to front.

 

The fuel pump on mine does not prime, (im almost positive it did before i pulled the engine out) we presume that this could be the problem as it has happened to me before in a previous 205 and we just ended up taking a live from the ignition to the fuel pump.

 

tachy relay? im guessing this is either the ignition amp or the relay under the bonnet. i have checked the relay and it works fine, i also have a spare ignition amp so i can try that.

 

Im also going to check the ECU part number with the one i was given with the engine and make sure it matches the ECU i have currently on the car.

 

How diffrent is the wiring? on the multi plug? all my oil presure and and everything seems to work fine when it trys to start, i get all the lights on and the oil pressure rises when the engine runs for the second or 2...

 

Only thing that doesnt work is my rev counter

 

Anything else i should be checking?

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

Just a quick one before i go off out, my tacho didn't work after swapping engines due to a poor earth, so maybe a cause for your problems. Tachy relay is under the dash near your ECU.

[Carbs4me 45]

i see... any1 tell me where it earths?

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

As above it sounds ver much like a pump problem to me,

 

either get a frond to put a multi-meter across the pump wires while you try and start it, or just hard wires the pump so it runs constantly, then fire it up...

 

(even if your producing 180 bhp, the pump will be capable of supplying that!)

 

As teh engine runs briefly i would rule out anything on the ignition side of things and as mentioned concentrate on the tachymetric relay..

 

Good luck

Paul.

 

EDIT i think it earhs on the passenger side inner wing

Edited February 15, 2011 by M_R_205

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

As above it sounds ver much like a pump problem to me,

 

either get a frond to put a multi-meter across the pump wires while you try and start it, or just hard wires the pump so it runs constantly, then fire it up...

 

(even if your producing 180 bhp, the pump will be capable of supplying that!)

 

As teh engine runs briefly i would rule out anything on the ignition side of things and as mentioned concentrate on the tachymetric relay..

 

Good luck

Paul.

 

EDIT i think it earhs on the passenger side inner wing

I'm pretty sure the pump runs at 7 bar this then held to 3 bar by the reg on the fuel rail. I had an issue with my pump and the reducer pipe connecting the actual pump to the nozzles of the pump assembly had split. Earths connect to the body via the NS inner wing. I earthed mine from a gearbox mouting bolt upto the battery and then to the inner wing.

[Carbs4me 45]

ok ive got it running.... Its unbelievably lumpy

 

It was the switch next to the ECU gave it a tap.. and now everything works fine.

 

The ECU that was on my car has a diffrent part number on it, we didnt change the ECU last nite as it was 11 clock when we got back from a test drive and it cut out all of a sudden round the corner from where we swapped the engine, which was down to a plug connecter falling off the coil... but we havent changed the ECU yet, because its got a diffrent part number can this be causing the lumpyness? im going to change it tonite, just fought id see what you guys think.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Carbs4me

[smithy 1]

ok ive got it running.... Its unbelievably lumpy

 

It was the switch next to the ECU gave it a tap.. and now everything works fine.

 

The ECU that was on my car has a diffrent part number on it, we didnt change the ECU last nite as it was 11 clock when we got back from a test drive and it cut out all of a sudden round the corner from where we swapped the engine, which was down to a plug connecter falling off the coil... but we havent changed the ECU yet, because its got a diffrent part number can this be causing the lumpyness? im going to change it tonite, just fought id see what you guys think.

 

 

the switch you refer to by ecu is the tachy relay as it has caused problems already i would get a new one.

 

as for the lumpiness it could be any number of things.Plugs,leads,dizzy cap,AFM to name a few. Firstly make sure the ECU is the correct one for the engine the 1.6 and 1.9 use different types same goes for the AFM

[Carbs4me 45]

Leads are brand new

 

dizzy is brand new

 

rotor arm brand new

 

AFM was working on the last car, ive even swaped it with my old AFM and it dus exactly the same.

 

Im pretty confindent its down to the ECU now

[Carbs4me 45]

problem solved

 

was down to the ECU

 

still lumpy but goes well from 2k all the way to 7k