[engine_work] My Engine Swap Thread

[shalmaneser 26]

Hi all.

 

EDIT: I'm gonna cross post this on pistonheads, so apologies for all the obvious statements i'm making!!!!

 

Below are the details of my engine conversion. I've managed to get the majority of the information off this amazing forum so hopefully buy posting up my experiences, problems and fixes I'll be able to help someone down the line!

 

The car itself is a 1.6 gti, with 309 beam, wishbones and driveshafts. It also has Gaz dampers all round along with Eibach springs on the front, along with gti6 brakes...so really the engine was the only weak link in the chain!!!

 

First of all, start with one Xsara VTS engine, with new cambelt, waterpump and clutch.

 

 

The VTS/GTI6 engine needs a digital speed sensor, but the gti clocks need an analog one...what to do? fit a speed sensor from a s16, available from ebay...

 

Original digital speed sensor

 

 

 

Compare the original sensor to the new digital and analog sensor...

 

 

Sadly the new plug doesn't fit straight on, so some modification is necessary.

 

 

So some material needs to be removed from the gearbox. hardly any, just a bit of work with a dremmel required.

 

 

all fitting perfectly.

 

 

While the engine is out of the car, remove the carbon cannister, not required in the 205 as emissions are not a concern in this pre cat model.

 

 

Don't forget to block the outlet on the throttle body!

 

 

The exhaust manifold from the VTS/GTI6 is a work of art, but needs to be modified slightly to miss the bulkhead on the 205, Miles will be able to modify your manifold for a very reasonable sum!!!

 

Edited January 31, 2011 by shalmaneser

[shalmaneser 26]

Finally the top hose connection on the GTI6/VTS is a bespoke connector, so you need to bolt on a adaptor, allowing you to use the 205 thermostat piece in the conversion, available from Baker BM, HERE

 

 

 

Once this has all been done, the engine can come out...

 

 

While this is out, you need to swap the differential out of the 205 gti gearbox, and put it into to VTS box. This allows the 205 driveshafts to be used with the VTS box. Then carefully seal the whole lot back up again.

 

Finally, after much sweating and swearing the engine is back in the car! It really is very tight indeed and a load leveller would be a very useful device to use when fitting...sadly not present when we were fitting the engine!

 

Thanks go out to Jake GTI and his buddy who were very helpful indeed and without whom I would have had a very tricky time indeed!!!!

 

Wooop!

 

 

I was extremely concerned about how easy it would be to unite the power steering between the car and engine, but it turns out this is probably the easiest part of the project. Using the high pressure hose from the VTS engine means that the whole lot bolts straight up, the only issues seemed to be the low pressure side, and that simply involved finding the right hoses and deciding how to route them. not completed yet, but more than happy with the progress.

 

This is the low pressure pump feed, yet to be connected...

 

 

The Vacuum hose from the engine to the brake servo fitted straight on with a little trim to make it a little shorter.

 

The clutch cable required some minor modification. I have used a 1.9 cable, with the original VTS clutch completely unmodified. All seems to be working beautifully, nice light clutch compared to the original BE3 box!!!

 

 

I've also disconnected the oil-water cooler, as I don't have the right hoses, hopefully this shouldn't be a problem, if i start to see high oil temps I'll get an air-oil Mocal cooler or something.

 

 

Also, no pics but the accelerator cable is out of a 405 and clips straight on.

 

 

This angle shows the famous master cylinder issue, you can see there's not much space. I've ordered a 406 master cylinder to compliment my gti6 brakes (although I was reasonably happy with the performance with the 205 M/C) it seems worthwhile to replace it while it's out. The pedal box will be tilted, and some material removed from both the master cylinder, and the cambelt cover.

[shalmaneser 26]

Finally, onto the tricky bits...

 

I'm going to use the 106 gti inline fuel filter, so I need to remove the bespoke connectors on the 205 and replace with standard lines. However, I'm finding it hard to remove the fuel lines from the solid lines on the engine bulkhead - has anyone else had this problem and are there any tips, other than poke it with a screwdriver until it rips off?

 

And the real biggy, I'm having a lot of trouble with the gearbox linkages.

 

There are two levers for the gearbox, which can be seen below.

 

 

and a diagram here...

 

 

The long linkage (drawn in green above) won't be a problem. However the yellow linkage is proving to be a bit of a ball ache. It's at an angle which doesn't make for a very pleasant gearshift, so I'm toying with bending the gearstick-end linkage backwards as demonstrated by the green arrow. This seems to be an obvious move, but feels like a bit of a bodge so if I can replace any components with OEM parts I'd rather do that... additionally it is a bloody thick bit of steel and would require a hell of a lot of bending which would be a lot of effort.

 

Other than those two issues things are going relatively smoothly at the moment, but if anyone has any top tips then please let me know!!!!

 

[welshpug 1,657]

you've got the linkages on the wrong points by the looks f it.

 

the top wiggly arm on the gearbox needs to be swapped with the flat 205/309 item.

[shalmaneser 26]

you've got the linkages on the wrong points by the looks f it.

 

the top wiggly arm on the gearbox needs to be swapped with the flat 205/309 item.

 

Hmmm, thanks for that will have to look into it!

[omega 82]

good luck with this.

lots of good info you are posting as well that will help other people.

[Jake_GTI 0]

you've got the linkages on the wrong points by the looks f it.

 

the top wiggly arm on the gearbox needs to be swapped with the flat 205/309 item.

i have the original engine and box from this car atm and shalmaneser has asked if i could get the original arm off the box for him, i am having a bit of an issue with this! any ideas as for how to remove it?

[shalmaneser 26]

Quick question...

 

What goes in this hole?

 

 

It's on the front of the block.

 

Also, I've just got my oil pressure and temperature T-piece from Pugracing (great service as always), I was wondering which sensors people were using on these - both 205 ones (oil temperature and pressure) or one of each or whatever?

 

I'm tempted to just use both of the 205 ones tbh along with new copper washers...If people would just confirm I'm right here...

 

On the 205 the temp sensor is on the back of the sump, now needs to be screwed into the T piece, but where is the pressure gauge? Is it one of the ones on the front of the block?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

You've got it arse about face.

 

The temp sensor fits in the hole you show in the picture, that is the sump not the block. The 205 one won't fit as far as I know.

 

The t piece is for you to fit both the 205 pressure switch and pressure sender.

[Baz 421]

Great thread, decent concise info that should serve as a guide for others no doubt!

 

May i aks why you didn't retain the 1.6 box after i presume being happy with it for so long previously?

[2052006 10]

Re the oil temp sensor, you can use either the original vts one or a late model 205 one which with the 205 gauges give a slightly higher (but more true, apparently) reading.

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Hi Mate

 

You might want to leave the purge solenoid connected otherwise your ecu will register a fault afaik.

[shalmaneser 26]

Great thread, decent concise info that should serve as a guide for others no doubt!

 

May i aks why you didn't retain the 1.6 box after i presume being happy with it for so long previously?

 

Just fed up with the short gears on the 1.6 box on the motorway! If this was a dedicated track/fun car I would certainly have kept it, but as it's my only car it needs to have a degree of motorway practicality!

 

Also, thanks for the info Tom!

[qwerty 9]

Great thread

 

will be coming back to this one for info in the future

 

Thanks for the detailed/pic info

[shalmaneser 26]

Right, WRT the sensor questions I posted earlier....

 

The temperature sensor code is 0242-81, which is from a late model 205, apparently this fits; will confirm later.

 

I've bought a T piece from Pugsport for the oil pressure to run off. However I'm having trouble identifying which sensor i need. There are two on the 205 block according to servicebox. These are 1131-14 'Manocantact', which google translates as 'pressure switch' and is £12 from pug.

 

The second is 1131-69 'transmitteur' which google unsurprisingly translates as transmitter and is £86 from Pug.

 

Do people know which of these is required to use the GTI pressure gauge?

 

Finally I also managed to get the original 'bent' gearlever off the VTS gearbox and exchange it for the straight BE3 linkage plate. This was a massive massive ball ache and I highly recommend anyone else doing the same swap do this BEFORE the engine is in the car

 

The split pin in situ with the old linkage...

 

 

FINALLY!!!!

 

[rallysteve 22]

The Switch is the one that turns on the stop/low oil pressure warning lights. The transmitter is the one that acts as the sender for the pressure gauge.

Hope that helps Steve

[Para 82 2 Cars]

Great threat, big thanks for documenting this so cerefully. I will be doing the same work very soon and this threat would be useful. shalmaneser could you put in one topic what sensores from which car goes where ;P and parts number is a great help too !!

[shalmaneser 26]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=99387

 

that thread is really useful for sensor identification.

 

Rallysteve - thought that might be the case, the only problem is that the transmitter is £86 from bloody pug before VAT. You can get a proper sensor from demon tweeks for about £60 including display!

 

Anyone got a good used sensor they'd be willing to send my way?!?!!?

[SurGie 54]

BTW dont let the gear selector arm fall down into the gearbox after taking the top part of it off, or you will lose some gears and could take a while to line it all again.

[shalmaneser 26]

BTW dont let the gear selector arm fall down into the gearbox after taking the top part of it off, or you will lose some gears and could take a while to line it all again.

 

Good advice; luckily i was OK.

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

Is that a cassette removal tool being used as a roll pin ?

 

Good stuff

[Jake_GTI 0]

nice use of a lockring tool, i didnt think of that then i was trying to get the linkage off lol

Edited February 8, 2011 by Jake_GTI

[shalmaneser 26]

nice use of a lockring tool, i didnt think of that then i was trying to get the linkage off lol

 

Hah, yeah it is...the perfect size!

[shalmaneser 26]

Update now that the weather is a bit nicer!!!

 

After have discovered that the crown wheels need to be swapped on the differentials (see here...http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=127792&st=0&p=1153146entry1153146)

 

I needed to remove the 205 differential i had installed in the VTS gearbox.

 

To clarify: You need the 205 differential, with the VTS crown wheel. The VTS crown wheel is noticeably bigger than the 205 one, I should have noticed at the time, really. This allows you to use 205 driveshafts, which engage properly with the 205 diff, while maintaining proper contact with the VTS drive gear.

 

This is the Xsara diff

 

 

notice the numbers - 65 teeth to engage with the VTS gearbox

 

 

you need to use the crown wheel and place on the 205 diff...

 

Here.

 

 

different numbers indicating different tooth pitch and number of teeth

 

 

removing crown wheel

 

 

This needs to be bolted onto the 205 diff.

 

bolts come out nice and easily with a big ol' breaker bar. need to be torqued up to 65nm according to peugeot.

 

In other news, fitted new oil temp sensor...

 

 

not very exciting.

 

starting to connect up the electronics...

 

 

This is the live side, for some reason the Xsara has two positive cables, both going to the same place...redundancy I guess...

 

 

Gearbox earth bolted up...

 

 

all the gear linkages are all fitted together, gearshift is lovely with the BBM linkages and BBM brass bush.

 

To confirm, you need the 205 BE3 flat linkage, which needs to replace the bent linkage which comes with the Xsara box

 

 

very happy with this ATM.

Edited March 4, 2011 by shalmaneser

[shalmaneser 26]

still need to solder the inertia switch together.

 

 

Thought I'd check the timing before I mash the valves to bits...

 

 

All looking good.

 

 

I've gotta say I think the tensioning system on the GTI6 engine is a pile of gash, I can't believe that the tension simply comes from clamping the tensioner to the block, doesn't surprise me so many of these munch their valvetrain given that all it takes is for the tensioner to work loose.

 

made sure mine is nice and tight with a blob of threadlock.

 

 

 

Still need to remove some material here, no biggie.

 

 

 

Cannot bend this BASTARD THING to the right angle. really don't want to snap the f***er off. This is the only major stumbling block really!!!!

 

 

Some electrical questions...

 

 

What to do with this?

 

 

Think it's for the carbon purge valve. Can I just short it out or leave it dangling around? don't want any ECU errors really!

 

 

And the air compressor widget -

 

 

same again, obvs. no AC on this, short it out or leave it unconnected?

 

Cheers guys, hopefully been useful to someone!