Disc Brake Conversion

[petert 585]

I've just finished doing a disc brake conversion on a drum brake beam using 306 trailing arms. Whilst I was expecting the increased toe in, I was pleasantly surprised to also find some increased track. I haven't measured it, but there must be a least 25mm more in total, as Mi16 wheels now fit easily.

[Tom Fenton 1,540]

From memory the 306 stub axles are about 15mm longer, then there is a big thick spacer that spaces the inner wheel brg race off from the trailing arm casting. This gives the disc offset that is different due to the spacer.

 

My 205 with 309 beam and Xsara (same as 306) arms has a mega wide stance at the back.

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

The 1.9 does fill the arches better compared to a 1.6. These are the figures i've found, 1.6 GTI and Cabriolet models 1328 mm. 1.9 GTI models 1344 mm. Be interested to know the end result though as the ride height will affect all the camber and toe. Looking forward to getting mine on the Hawkeye at work!

[swordfish210 20]

My Xsara arms were like this but when i was fitting the wheel bearings i played about with some of the shims and have ended up with the track width only slightly wider (around 3mm) than it was with the standard arms. I did notice the Xsara arms had ABS sensors on them and the bearings i used didn't which could have helped in achiving the narrower track.

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

Thats good to hear as i may well need to do that myself, got a 309 beam with 306 arms and 7j wheels. what did you have to do to the shim exactly, remove it, or is it obvious, not had one to bits myself?

Edited January 7, 2011 by j_turnell

[swordfish210 20]

Thats good to hear as i may well need to do that myself, got a 309 beam with 306 arms and 7j wheels :S

 

Crikey, good job you don't have to deal with base model arches. What offset are the wheels?

Edited January 7, 2011 by swordfish210

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

ET18, im guna build and throw it on and see how bad it is, got some really nice Gutmann wheels so want to keep them, worst comes ill throw a 205 beam together and keep the 309 beam for a rainy day.

[swordfish210 20]

Behind the bearing on the Xsara arm there is a very thick shim, and very obvious. I replaced that one with the shim from behind the bearing on the 205 arm then used the thick shim with another thin but large diameter one behind the nut so it would tighten down properly. Torqued it all up and job done When you take them apart it will all be very obvious

Edited January 7, 2011 by swordfish210

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

So inversely you could put 306 stub axles on and the ABS ring and get some extra track on a 205 beam?

[welshpug 1,655]

yup.

[swordfish210 20]

Yeah why not, cheapo 309 beam

[tomcolinjones 26]

Yeah why not, cheapo 309 beam

 

its all coming out of the woodwork today! 106 gti arb fit with a spacer, use vts/306 trailing arms for extra track with 205 beam, anything else?

[welshpug 1,655]

man sized torsion bars off Anthony

[tomcolinjones 26]

man sized torsion bars off Anthony

how do you mean man sized mei? man enough for you or man enough for me?

Edited January 7, 2011 by tomcolinjones

[swordfish210 20]

its all coming out of the woodwork today! 106 gti arb fit with a spacer, use vts/306 trailing arms for extra track with 205 beam, anything else?

 

Pretty much my setup, 22mm ARB from a Saxo, Xsara trailing arms and some man sized 24mm torsion bars. Didn't fit the arb with a spacer though, just carefully located it in the middle.

[tomcolinjones 26]

Pretty much my setup, 22mm ARB from a Saxo, Xsara trailing arms and some man sized 24mm torsion bars. Didn't fit the arb with a spacer though, just carefully located it in the middle.

 

are these torsion bars soo man sized that oversteer is inevitable? i gues it allows you to have a much stiffer setup on the front without understeer.

 

i like the sound of a solid back end, where do these 24mm arms come from? before anthony. what are on a vts? if i got everything shortened off the vts to 205 width, with vts arms, i gues i would be looking at quite a stiff beam?

[swordfish210 20]

No oversteer unless you provoke it, the back end now will not squat down during cornering meaning that it will not be taking weight away from the front wheels, increasing front end grip. I got the bars from Anthony (for a great price), not sure what bars are on a Xsara, 21mm possibly .....

[qwerty 9]

From memory the 306 stub axles are about 15mm longer, then there is a big thick spacer that spaces the inner wheel brg race off from the trailing arm casting. This gives the disc offset that is different due to the spacer.

 

My 205 with 309 beam and Xsara (same as 306) arms has a mega wide stance at the back.

 

Wouldn mind seeing a pic of this

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

Heres a pic of Al's new purchase, sure he wont mind me posting this, thought i'd try my 7J Gutmann wheels, 309 beam with 306 arms. Phat

 

[tomcolinjones 26]

No oversteer unless you provoke it, the back end now will not squat down during cornering meaning that it will not be taking weight away from the front wheels, increasing front end grip. I got the bars from Anthony (for a great price), not sure what bars are on a Xsara, 21mm possibly .....

 

im guesing your pug is set up for track? what does it feel like on 'B' roads? twitchey? what sort of change would using a thinner / standard gti arb give to your setup? what would you advise for road rallying? i would like it stiffer, but i am unsure about how it would handle over lots of little bumps with a solid back end...

 

 

Heres a pic of Al's new purchase, sure he wont mind me posting this, thought i'd try my 7J Gutmann wheels, 309 beam with 306 arms. Phat

 

 

looks like it should be RWD!

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

Yeh bit too wide, so my next question is can you remove the spacer on the 306 arms without changing the stub axles, or do these need to be changed for standard 1.9 items??

[swordfish210 20]

I really wouldn't drive my car quickly down undulating b-roads, far too stiff. I've set it up to go around a nice smooth track maintaining good contact from all 4 tyres.

 

Turnell, nice stance

[swordfish210 20]

Yeh bit too wide, so my next question is can you remove the spacer on the 306 arms without changing the stub axles, or do these need to be changed for standard 1.9 items??

 

Swap the spacer from the inside of the bearing to the outside

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

Swap the spacer from the inside of the bearing to the outside

 

Will that not affect disk and caliper fitment or do you then use standard disks?

Edited January 8, 2011 by j_turnell

[welshpug 1,655]

use 205 disc instead of 306 disc