[project] The Ultimate Track 205

[Sandy 191]

To try and illustrate this better, have a look at the SBD price list: http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Price_List/Price%20list.pdf Steve Broughton is one of the only people producing genuine and reliable results from the Duratec and I urge to avoid cheaper, lower quality components, especially some of the pathetic rods and pistons that I won't name, but are sold as comparable! The 245bhp kit is £7725 inc VAT, plus you'll need to consider single piece valves and proper guides and inserts to try and avert the tendency for valves to drop heads, that plague the standard components. Oil control management too, baffling has its limits and they're pretty low grip wise with this engine, so dry sump circa £1500, plus decent donor engine, circa £500 secondhand or £1600 crate. About £10-12k

 

Honda K20 secondhand, circa £1300 for a goodie, bodies kit around £1000, ECU+loom, £1000, cams around £500, baffle kit is very effective £200. About £4500

[Cameron 16]

Thanks for the input Sandy, you're probably gonna say WHYYYYYY!? but I just really don't want a Honda engine, the Duratec appeals to me much more. I should be able to get a reasonable deal on parts to tune one up, and can get a new Quaife G60 for £5k or thereabouts, while I'm sure a sequential box for a Honda engine would cost more and be difficult to find. 250bhp is my target, I don't knwo how reasonable my 5-6k budget is for that, but I'm sure I could do it for substantially less than 10k.

 

Engines aside for a minute, I've finally been busy again over the weekend, preparing the shell for the roll hoops. First off I wanted to remove the upper seatbelt anchor points from the B-pillars, suspecting it to be a little plate spot welded in, then found out it was actually enormous! This shot shows the inner skin removed, the beige bit is the seatbelt load-spreading plate - 3mm thick!

 

 

A bit of chopping and some very fiddly welding later..

 

 

Then got to installing the main roll hoop.. starting off by adding the inner skin back into the sill, this will join up to the inner rear wheelarch panel once I've cut the boot floor out.

 

 

Then after a bit of CAD (cardboard aided design) I had my base plate design sorted, which satisfies the MSA regs on 120cm^2 area.

 

 

Will be tackling the other side this week, should be a fair bit quicker now I know what to do.. half the time is spent figuring out how to build something up when you're starting from scratch!

[ricdat 0]

Hi Sandy,

just to clarify, regarding bellhousings that are available for RWD gearboxes for the Honda K20: it sounds like they are available for numerous standard/factory gearboxes, but would they be available for the Quaife sequential box that Cameron wants to use? On the Quaife site I get the idea that it is a 60G, not a G60 for the box. It also says it bolts to a Ford Type 9 bellhousing. From your comment, this would mean one simply bolts a "Ford Type 9 to Honda K20" bellhousing on (as well as input shaft adaption). Is this right? The gearbox details are at http://www.quaife.co.uk/qbe60g

[Sandy 191]

My experience of the Quaife Sequentials in Escorts isn't that positive either, the extra for the Sadev or Tractive is money very well spent. Considerably slicker and more reliable.

 

You're probably thinking I'm some sort of brand snob or a bit free and easy with outher people's money at that point, but that couldn't be further from the truth. My daily toil is a steady trail of projects involving a £900 rod+piston package rather than the £1200 for the right ones, or the £7k gearbox rather than the far superior £9k one and so on, that keep people in a wasted money cycle. The savings may seem substantial, but the aggravation, frustration and extra time and money that goes with them usually overtakes the original cost of the better bits. About half the Duratecs we've had brought to us are rebuilds, engines built by others from the mediocre bits (and there's a major brand everyone knows that I include in that), that have failed to actually make them claimed power and/or dropped their guts. I hope you have taken something from what I've said, but there's only so much I can say without decending into what'll look like a pointless forum argument, so i'll leave it there and wish you well.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Sandy

[Cameron 16]

It's not pointless at all, it's very useful and I'd hope people don't think we're having an argument!

 

I'm absolutely with you on the so called "brand-snobbery" and believe me I won't be chosing mediocre components to try and save a few quid here and there. The 6k budget is based on what I think I can afford within the timescale of this project, rather than me having priced up any components, I haven't even got to that stage yet. My focus so far has been completely on the chassis, so it may well turn out that I need to squeeze a little more money into the engine build to get the spec I want. You're not the first person to advise me against Quaife gearboxes so I'll give that some thought too.

[Cameron 16]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=855303

 

Interesting thread on gearboxes.. the Quaife doesn't come out too badly, although apparently the price difference to a Sadev isn't much at all. Would be very interesting to find out how much they go for.

[Rippthrough 98]

I'd go for a Sadev over the Quaife even if it hurts the wallet.

[Cameron 16]

Yeah I may well do. Found an XTrac rear diff on TCS today.. arrrrrgh!

[allye 530 3 Cars]

This project has taken more turns than the nurburgring itself! I'm sure it will continue to do so as well

 

Its going to be engineer's/205 enthusiasts wet dream

[Anthony 1,003]

Left field suggestion, but if you want RWD, a low CoG and decent power on a comparatively tight budget, what about an Renesis (RX8) engine, gearbox and maybe even the whole drivetrain?

 

It's about 20hp short of your target in standard 231 form, you can pick up a complete lowish mileage car for £2500, and they seem to be pretty robust providing that you look after them properly (which unfortunately many aren't). On paper at least, it looks ideal to me for what you're wanting.

 

Certainly if I had the fabrication/welding skills you do, I'd build a Renesis engined Mk1 MX-5... it'd be utterly sublime

[sambaileyw 2]

Left field suggestion, but if you want RWD, a low CoG and decent power on a comparatively tight budget, what about an Renesis (RX8) engine, gearbox and maybe even the whole drivetrain?

 

It's about 20hp short of your target in standard 231 form, you can pick up a complete lowish mileage car for £2500, and they seem to be pretty robust providing that you look after them properly (which unfortunately many aren't). On paper at least, it looks ideal to me for what you're wanting.

 

Certainly if I had the fabrication/welding skills you do, I'd build a Renesis engined Mk1 MX-5... it'd be utterly sublime

 

These have got huge tuning potential n/a or forced that is quite an idea tbf

[welshpug 1,657]

phillipM knows a thing or two about tuning the rotary engines, his buggy runs a fairly stock one at 270 bhp I think.

[Cameron 16]

Yeah that things a beast, but rest assured I'll be sticking with pistons!

[Matt180 31]

My experience with quaife wasn't a good one either. The input shaft on my close ratio MA gearkit snapped in half on a standard J4 engine. I dont think i could do that to a standard box if i tried!!. They then told me it wasn't a manufacturing error and charged over £600 for a new input shaft. I felt Shafted

Edited April 3, 2012 by Matt180

[kyepan 291]

a three rotor anthony, think big!! it would sound .. bonkers

[Rippthrough 98]

I know a man who has a factory race-spec 3-rotor in a crate still in the packaging....~420bhp....

[Cameron 16]

Still no.

[Rippthrough 98]

Aluminium end and centre plates in it too....

[Cameron 16]

Still definitely no.

[Rippthrough 98]

Comes already wired in, throttle bodies setup, ECU programmed ready to turn the key....

[Cameron 16]

Does it come with pistons?

[Rippthrough 98]

Yeah, they're in the delivery van when it arrives.

[Cameron 16]

I'm almost tempted to buy the engine just to see what pistons you send taped to it.

 

Anywho.. a little more work gone on the past couple of evenings and now I have my main roll hoop tacked in.

 

 

 

Bottoms are all profiled up to match the mounting plates, both of which are now sorted.

 

 

 

Pretty happy with that.

[Rippthrough 98]

Pssst, someones made the roof 2 inches too high there.

 

Oh, wait....

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

Mmmm no where near the B pillars either............

 

 

 

Ill get my coat!