[project] The Ultimate Track 205

[Cameron 16]

Haha that sounds like a challenge!

 

I accept!

 

 

 

Yeah come round and criticise whenever, you can combine the visit with picking up some parts.

[alexcrosse 124]

game on!

 

 

some time this week probably, ill make sure im in a work shirt so I cant help you move anything around you garage/cupboard.

[Cameron 16]

Cool, I could do with a hand actually, got a whole load of scrap metal and engines I need to weigh in!

[alexcrosse 124]

like that blue shell you keep uploading photos of? lol

[Cameron 16]

Oh no he didn't!

 

Anywho.. some more work today, though I spent most of the day ferrying all sorts of junk from my garden to the local dump so I just had a little nibble in the afternoon attacking some of the brackets that aren't needed.

 

Seat mounts, dash mounts and steering column mounts were the first victims:

 

 

This time around I have a nice spot weld drill so it was a hell of a lot quicker and easier than cutting them out on my black shell!

 

 

Handbrake mount is surplus to requirements, so it's gone.

 

 

Nice little pile of scrap.. there's way more to come off though!

 

Edited November 20, 2011 by Cameron

[Cameron 16]

There hasn't been much in the way of interesting progress recently, hence the lack of updates. I've been busy stripping it back to the bare shell and it's now pretty much there, just the fuel tank to come off then it's job done. Some pics of how it's looking..

 

 

 

And my box of metal scrap, which has got a little full! Once I've emptied it I think I'll start weighing all the bits I cut off and keep a little tally of it somewhere to see just how much weight can be saved by removing the silly little brackets etc.

 

 

I'll start fab'ing the false floor this weekend, need to sort out a bit more lighting in my garage first as it gets a bit too dark in the evenings. Oh and some sort of heating would be very nice too!

[Bas 6 1 Cars]

Cameron what do you think of this rear axle setup?

 

 

 

 

[Rich_p 23]

To me it looks like a standard set up but with additional bracing to stop any twisting of geometry movement.

 

I may be very wrong though!

 

Edit - Just noticed the additional arb and mounts!

Edited December 6, 2011 by Rich_p

[welshpug 1,657]

still relies on the poor rear damper ratio

 

looks like a 309 gti16 crossmember.

[Cameron 16]

Just looks like a stiffened standard beam, so will be prone to the same shortfalls.. I'm sure it's an improvement in terms of toe stiffness, but the standard beam is very heavy and all the extra bracing isn't going to improve that! As WP says you're also still stuck with the low damper ratio and torsion bars.

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

Very thorough job of stripping the shell You dont happen to have the rear most heatsheild (above the backbox) in that box of scrap do you? Im currently after one

[Cameron 16]

Yes and no, i have one but one of the holes got mullered by a corroded nut.

[Bas 6 1 Cars]

still relies on the poor rear damper ratio

 

looks like a 309 gti16 crossmember.

 

Sorry for my ignorance but can you please explain "poor rear damper ratio".

[Bas 6 1 Cars]

Just looks like a stiffened standard beam, so will be prone to the same shortfalls.. I'm sure it's an improvement in terms of toe stiffness, but the standard beam is very heavy and all the extra bracing isn't going to improve that! As WP says you're also still stuck with the low damper ratio and torsion bars.

 

 

Must agree that it's just a stiffened standard beam. But why did he put a subframe underneath the car? (attached to the roll cage if you look closely)

 

As posted before I don't understand "low damper ratio."

 

For sure the original beam is heavy and this setup ads more weight BUT the 205 can use some extra weigth on the rear wheels, no?

 

BTW looking forward to your double wishbone 205 rear axle setup!

[welshpug 1,657]

the standard wheel to damper ratio is quite high, something like 2.5-1 meaning such a small damper has to work very hard to control the wheel.

 

Moving to a vertical damper mounted from the rear of the stub axle and fixed to welded in turrets in the wheel arches is ideal as it gives a much lower damper to wheel ratio, also dampers work better when upright.

 

however the main issue is that the regulations for many forms of motorsport will not allow this, but there are ways around it still to improve the damper ratio without any shell modifications, Colin Satchell has done a lot of work on this kind of arrangement (user name of eeyore on here)

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

the standard wheel to damper ratio is quite high, something like 2.5-1 meaning such a small damper has to work very hard to control the wheel.

 

Moving to a vertical damper mounted from the rear of the stub axle and fixed to welded in turrets in the wheel arches is ideal as it gives a much lower damper to wheel ratio, also dampers work better when upright.

 

however the main issue is that the regulations for many forms of motorsport will not allow this, but there are ways around it still to improve the damper ratio without any shell modifications, Colin Satchell has done a lot of work on this kind of arrangement (user name of eeyore on here)

 

Dampers work better when upright? when there s*it dampers sure.

 

Still not convinced that all this damper ratio modifications is needed, it just makes it simpler. Yes there are other reasons but at the end of the day why not make what you've got work better than try to re invent the wheel.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Cameron what do you think of this rear axle setup?

 

 

 

 

 

How's that set-up sprung then? It's certainly missing at least 1 torsion bar.

[Cameron 16]

I have a feeling it uses 2 shorter torsion bars, through that central downward-angled blue bit.

 

As for damper ratios, yeah you can make what you have work, or you can fit something better. Having a high installation ratio (wheel moves a lot, damper moves a little) means you have to work the damper very hard (very high resistance) to get the damping rates you need to control the springs. If you have a low installation ratio (wheel moves a little, damper moves a lot) then you have low resistance and a lot less stress and heat build-up. It's good to aim for an IR of about 1:1 to get the best out of everything.

[Batfink 201]

Dampers work better when upright? when there s*it dampers sure.

 

Still not convinced that all this damper ratio modifications is needed, it just makes it simpler. Yes there are other reasons but at the end of the day why not make what you've got work better than try to re invent the wheel.

 

Its not about the damper angle but the 1:1 ratio. Certainly controls the rear better over bumps and curbs from experience. Basic performance value is negligible

[welshpug 1,657]

you can control the wheel better with a cheap damper on a 1-1 ratio than you can with an expensive one at 2.5-1.

[Bas 6 1 Cars]

 

As for damper ratios, yeah you can make what you have work, or you can fit something better. Having a high installation ratio (wheel moves a lot, damper moves a little) means you have to work the damper very hard (very high resistance) to get the damping rates you need to control the springs. If you have a low installation ratio (wheel moves a little, damper moves a lot) then you have low resistance and a lot less stress and heat build-up. It's good to aim for an IR of about 1:1 to get the best out of everything.

 

Thanks for the explanation. All clear now.

[Rippthrough 98]

I reckon that beam would work a lot better if the arms weren't bent myself Mei.

[welshpug 1,657]

just noticed that

[Bas 6 1 Cars]

New topic about the Grégory ALAIZE Peugeot 205 rear axle here:

 

http://forum.205gtid...howtopic=134894

[Cameron 16]

Woop! Petrol tank is off! Managed to do it without pouring petrol everywhere and setting myself on fire, too!

 

I have a strong feeling I'll be either ditching or extensively modifying the Dimma kit, as the side skirts don't come anywhere as far down as I'd want them to for a flat floor. Oh, and tomorrow I pick up my first batch of machined parts - my rear subframe mounting bosses.