[project] The Ultimate Track 205

[Cameron 16]

Been having a think recently and I'm pretty convinced that I'm going to break and sell my current black 205 and start again fresh with a base model shell. Reasons being..

1 - I don't want a sunroof or blanked hole.
2 - The bodywork and paint is beyond tatty and I'd quite like the new one to look a bit more professional.
3 - I'd be removing the cage to be replaced with a T45 one, which is a lot of work and may cause some damage to the shell. There's also some issues with rust on the underside - explained below.
4 - I'd be fitting a Dimma or similar kit to it for the extra track width, which will involve cutting out or replacing the arches, so a base model shell is more suitable anyway.
5 - Probably most importantly, I need to raise some money to buy all the bits I need!

I think sometime over the winter I'll tear it all apart and sell the bits I won't need. I'm not overly keen on selling the main part of the shell though as I think it needs a fair bit of attention paid to rust on the underside where, frustratingly, I hadn't painted it properly after doing all the shell mods a few years ago. I may be able to sort it out so it's suitable for sale, but will have to investigate further. I'll be keeping some bits such as the engine, wheels, front brakes and a couple of interior bits, but the rest will be going.

It's a bit of an extreme decision but I'm actually feeling very positive about it, I have my eyes on a couple of suitable base models for sale too.

[Batfink 201]

It can be more work to fix a shell thats not quite right rather than start with something better. There are usually some good low mileage cars for sale in very good nick and a low price too!

Have you though whether a 405 shell would be more suitable dimensions? Though I understand why you'd want a 205

Edited September 22, 2011 by Batfink

[Cameron 16]

It can be more work to fix a shell thats not quite right rather than start with something better. There are usually some good low mileage cars for sale in very good nick and a low price too!

Have you though whether a 405 shell would be more suitable dimensions? Though I understand why you'd want a 205

 

Exactly my thinking! It would be a hell of a lot of work to chop a cage out of the shell, then I'd have a hell of a lot of bodywork to do to get the panels in a suitable condition to take paint. I have my eye on a nice little 1.6 auto on eBay at the moment, it's only done 46k!

 

I did think for a little bit about a 309, but I really want to stick to 205's! They take up way less garage space for a start!

[Cameron 16]

Call me crazy for thinking about paint so early on, but I'm thinking about Audi RS Blue with neon green / yellow highlights.

 

 

 

Highlights will be vinyl strips along the bottoms of the sill extensions (just in case I hate it) and probably the roll cage if I like it / am feeling brave!

[qwerty 9]

Nogaro blue is one of the nicest colours on an Audi, it'll be interesting to see it on a 205

[Cameron 16]

Yeah I'm hoping it works as well as I think it will!

 

Finished spec'ing my brake system which means I can do some package checks in CAD to make sure everything fits. Handily AP have drawings for all their parts on their website so making CAD models of them is a doddle. The spec will be:

 

Front - AP 4 pot calipers with 295mm vented rotors on aluminium bells

Rear - AP 2 pot calipers with 280mm solid rotors on aluminium bells

 

Master cylinders will be spec'd to suit and I'll make a pedal box similar to Davenport's Rattlebox to get adjustable bias.

 

I'll get some images up of the package checks when they're finished.

[camgti 56]

Not sure if you would be into it. I reckon Imola BMW red would look great on a 205 IMO

 

Cam

[Cameron 16]

Hokay, so a bit of a small looking update, but it's a big step towards being able to actually start making things!

 

I've done my package checks on the brakes and everything looks good at the moment, plans have changed here there and everywhere as I discovered things that wouldn't fit. I originally wanted to use 304mm discs up front but they just wouldn't fit under my 15" wheels which I am NOT changing, so downsized them to 295mm and changed the caliper to gain some clearance.

 

I adjusted the front balljoint locations to try and reduce my scrub radius, which is important as it will cause a degree of toe change under braking depending on compliances, can make the steering heavy and increase tyre wear. I still want a small amount though as that's what gives your steering "feel". Anywho, the balljoints have moved outwards and I adjusted my inner BJ positions to suit.

 

CAD mock-ups are done, the calipers and rotors were easy as AP have drawings on their online catalogue, the bells I designed with the aim of using the same one front and rear, and the wheel I made from measuring one of my TD Pro Race 1.2's.

 

Front:

 

 

Rear:

 

 

In other news, my housemate is FINALLY shifting his engine out of the garage next weekend so I can start to strip my black 205 down and sell the parts I won't need. I've also bought a Dimma bodykit off eBay today for £220 delivered - not bad!

 

Finally, I've been planning how I'm going to actually build the thing in my little single garage with it's uneven floor. I'll need something flat and level to measure from in order to get my hardpoint locations accurate, so have devised a cunning plan.. I'll make a frame that I can stick the body on to, like a set of 4 axle stands but will raise the body up about 500mm so I can work under it, then will make (or attempt to) a flat and level fake floor that will bolt in place and this will be my datum. I'm gonna try and make it so I can fit it in 2 positions - 1 at the virtual ground level for mocking up the suspension and checking everything before it goes back on it's wheels, and number 2 a set distance below the "ground level" so that I can measure to it while still giving myself room to work without having to take it in and out all the time.

 

This is how the frame looks:

 

 

Nice and simple, made from 50mm x 50mm 16swg square box. It'll most likely be made in 2 halves so I can jack one end of the car up at a time, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Will be ordering the steel for it next week and using my black shell to check it works.

 

Over and out.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Cameron

[feb 47]

Interesting.

Where did you get extended ball joints in order to reduce the scrub radius?

Isn't this a problem though in heavily lowered cars?

[Cameron 16]

I'm making my own uprights so no need for any balljoint extenders.

[davenport 51]

I'm making my own uprights

 

 

fabricated or billet???

[Cameron 16]

Fabricated! For the fronts I'll get the bearing housings machined then make the rest out of sheet metal, the rears will have a machined spindle and the rest is pretty much 1.5" box.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Cameron

[welshpug 1,662]

a bit like the ones pictured here then?

 

http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2008/showthread.php?t=77870&page=2&highlight=saxo

[Cameron 16]

Oooo nice build! Yeah the fronts will be similar to that in principle, rears will be a lot simpler.

[davenport 51]

i use to make the farbicated front uprights on the old LOLA T200 formula ford cars we built... a very simple design that created a very strong front upright.. (the rears were a cast and the machined item)

 

not sure how your planning on doing it but the LOLA items had a main centre tube (approx 4" diameter) that had the recess for the bearing race machined AFTER welding (shrinkage is a b*tch) so needed a lathe with a siazable swing to finish the op...

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Same again from most fabricated uprights i've worked with, machine them after.

[Cameron 16]

Exactly what I did for our Formula Student car as I was concerned about shrinkage or ovalling. They were rough machined first then the bearing recesses were carefully machined out afterwards, I'm hoping to do the same with these too.

 

The rears will be much more simple though, they're effectively a stub axle welded in to some 1.5" box section. I'll post some pics of the designs when they're finished.

[davenport 51]

very cool...

 

 

makes my current "wishbone project" seem trivial hahahahahaha

[Cameron 16]

Dimma kit arrived today!

 

Getting my black one back in the garage this weekend so I can strip it down, then work will start properly in the next couple of weeks.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Cameron

[Leet205 48]

Kit look decent? pics!

[Cameron 16]

Kit look decent? pics!

 

Yeah it looks good to me, rear quarters are brand new, front wings have seen a little use but the bumpers are probably past it. I was very surprised with how thick the rear quarters were, they're a lot heavier than I had hoped! Since this build is going to be very weight conscious I might look into taking a quick mould and making some lighter ones. I want to modify them slightly anyway as I don't like the way the sill curves down in the corners, it's not exactly compatible with a flat floor! I'll most likely use this kit for mock-up purposes then look into replacing it.

 

In other news, I've sourced my base model shell! - Clicky!

 

It's got a pop-up sunroof but at £250 it was too good a deal to pass up! It's blue so will hopefully make re-painting that little bit easier too. Will hopefully collect it this weekend, then I can finish selling off the black one and clearing space for this new project. I also ordered a whole bunch of steel to make my chassis jig (Kieran - thanks for the contact info, I completely forgot about it though! ) which will hopefully arrive this week.

 

I'll be concentrating on making drawings for the time being, as there's a few bits I need machining before I can get started - namely subframe mounting bosses, spherical bearing housings and some stub axles. Once I've sourced a machinist and got these parts in I can actually start the build!

Edited October 27, 2011 by Cameron

[alexcrosse 124]

I've asked my CNC machinist if I can pass on his details to you mate. Hes based in essex and they're good!

[Cameron 16]

Nice one, thanks!

 

I have a whole load of custom parts that will need machining so he should get a fair bit of business out of me.

[Cameron 16]

Looks like I'll be bending over and forking out about £700 for all the rod ends and bearings I need for this..

 

Stupid double wishbones..

[welshpug 1,662]

would it be easier to design it to use some poly bushes at some points? for example at one end of a track control arm as you don't need adjustment at both ends?