Settle An Argument.

[lfallgti 12]

My mate John has got an Alfa 156 2.4 JTD on a 51 plate. He reckons it's the 175ps 20v JTDM model.

 

I argued that the JTDM wasnt available before 53 plate and his is really a JTD 150ps 10v model. (i did get my info from wikipedia so i may be wrong).

 

Its a petty argument but we need a conclusion.

[Baz 421]

I agree with you. :lol:

[welshpug 1,657]

open the bonnet and count the cams

 

edit, quick google brings this image up (from Auto express First drive November 2003)

 

Edited January 5, 2011 by welshpug

[lfallgti 12]

I would if i was near his car, and he's a bit of a bulls*itter which makes me think i'm right

 

 

Pretty good evidence there welshpug. Thanks

Edited January 5, 2011 by lfallgti

[AJA_GTi 0]

It will say 'alfa romeo 2.4 JTD 20V' on the rocker box cover if it's 20V if its 10V it will say 'alfa romeo 2.4 JTD'

 

bollocks - I was beaten to it...

Edited January 5, 2011 by AJA_GTi

[lfallgti 12]

HAHA, i just text my mate saying about that picture of the rocker cover. He said they're not genuine and then said he asked about buying one????

 

I said he doesnt need one as his is only 10v, the tool.

 

and now he's just text me saying. "anyway my diesel will piss all over your cars"

 

Hehe.

Edited January 5, 2011 by lfallgti

[GLPoomobile 958]

Bit late now, but you could have put his reg in to an online insurance quote request, as most companies now will be able to look up the correct model by reg.

 

But what a pointless argument. Your mate sounds like a prize plum. But then I have found Alfa owners to be a little on the precious side

[benje 0]

... But then I have found Alfa owners to be a little on the precious side

 

Oi!

[omega 82]

like bmw owners who but m3 badges on a 2.0 l

Edited January 5, 2011 by omega

[lfallgti 12]

I might also add that, in the past he has also said,

 

"you're not a PETROLhead until you've had an Alfa"

 

Words failed me....

[allye 530 3 Cars]

I might also add that, in the past he has also said,

 

"you're not a PETROLhead until you've had an Alfa"

 

Words failed me....

 

I can't tell you how much it irritates me when people quote Jeremy Clarkson then instantly consider themselfs a 'petrol head'!

 

(PS, I do like JC and find him very funny)

[lfallgti 12]

I consider him a knob head (not JC).

 

He has admitted defeat now though.

[boombang 2]

Ah but is 20 valves not gay like having 16 valves in a 205?

 

Hence he is better off with 10 of the f***ers.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Oi!

 

Just to clarify, I recently became an Alfa owner (166 3.0 V6), and I don't really see what all the fuss is about. I'm merely pointing out that I've noticed a slight air of superiority on the Alfa Owners forum. Fellow 166 owners will have you believe that it's the best car Alfa have made in recent years. Like I said, I don't see what all the fuss is about.

 

But like any marque, you'll always get the minority of fan-boys who can't see the wood for the trees, and choose to slag off everything else.

[Batfink 201]

I think the idea is they break down so often only a true petrolhead or car nut would persevere with them. Saying that, having chatted with a customer the old boxer engines do sound like fun.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Batfink

[feb 47]

I'm merely pointing out that I've noticed a slight air of superiority on the Alfa Owners forum.

 

But like any marque, you'll always get the minority of fan-boys who can't see the wood for the trees, and choose to slag off everything else.

 

I have heard the same from someone I know who just got a Giulietta about "opinionated pr*ck$" in the alfa owners forum.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Example.

 

I recently had a minor difference of opinion with someone on there (about what I can't remember) and in response they made some comment about how a fellow forum member had commented in the past that they were "between cars" when they briefly owned a Peugeot instead of an Alfa. Whether or not this was directed at me (because I have my 205 listed in profile section that appears in all your posts) I don't know. For once I couldn't be arsed to argue, because to be fair I do agree that everything Peugeot has made since the 306 has been s*it, and I wasn't going to stand up for them based on my love of the 205 GTI as that would make me as much of a sad fan boy as them. But it does go to show the kind of snobbery that exists.

[benje 0]

Just to clarify, I recently became an Alfa owner (166 3.0 V6), and I don't really see what all the fuss is about. I'm merely pointing out that I've noticed a slight air of superiority on the Alfa Owners forum. Fellow 166 owners will have you believe that it's the best car Alfa have made in recent years. Like I said, I don't see what all the fuss is about.

 

Nice choice. What's your opinion on the V6?

 

 

But like any marque, you'll always get the minority of fan-boys who can't see the wood for the trees, and choose to slag off everything else.

 

 

I agree 100%, however I think it's unfair to judge all Alfa Owners by the small representation of them who inhabit internet forums. Forums tend to breed so called fan boys, especially single make sites. Yeah I agree there are a few idiots over there (if we are talking about the same forum) who think because they own an Alfa, they are special, however I feel a lot of that stems from stupid quotes like "you're not a true petrol blah blah blah" thanks to JC.

 

I'm certain there are probably a few on here who also think they're special because they drive a car that was made before everything got safe, heavy and detached etc. It's just the way people are, people get precious over things they buy, and tend to defend them. Me, I'm not too fussed if I'm honest (although seeing as I've replied maybe I am...) I try to appreciate everyone has different tastes, that people are not always going to see eye to eye and that some people will always think they are/own the greatest car/driver etc etc. Just have to let them get on with it, and not judge everyone to be the same.

 

Ben

[GLPoomobile 958]

The V6 in the 166 is alright. Just "alright" (IMO of course). Mine has a *forgot the name* exhaust on it (made by Jetex I think) so it's got a little more character, but still far too civilised when you are used to 205's with Group N systems The GTV and the 3.2 variants such as the 147 GTA are probably a bit more entertaining, being as the 166 is built for refinement. I think the heavy dual mass flywheel robs part of the appeal, as I do find it a little unresponsive. So maybe with a lighter flywheel, an induction filter and a lairy exhaust it might be a little more fun, but for now it's "alright".

 

I'm not judging all Alfa owners based on a few fanboys. I think I said that "some" Alfa owners are a little precious. In fairness, judging by the 166 section of the forum (the only bit I frequent) most of the guys do seem to be reasonablly clued up and willing to get their hands dirty like us over here, rather than being dealer reliant like the buyers of some other marques. I'm also a member of Saab Scene and that is one of those frustrating forums that don't seem to have a lot of traffic, so there's hardly any interesting technical discussions, help is rare, and they even discourage bumping topics Browse through and it's a sea of unanswered questions, or topics with only a single reply. Shame.

Edited January 6, 2011 by GLPoomobile

[lfallgti 12]

Having just been over on the Alfa owners forum, i can see where some of the above opinions of alfa owners stem from. There are lots of Clarkson quotes and some have even said they decided to look at Alfa's as a possible next purchase because of that. Also there seems to be alot of badge snobbery, i.e "when i finish work, i walk past the sea of euroboxes and german barges in the car park and slide into my elegant and classy Alfa." Another thing that made me laugh was that a majority seem to think that all Alfa's are beautiful, stylish machines. I do not find the front or nose on any Alfa beautiful. I think personally that Alfa owners (not all) do want to buy into the whole style, panache,italian flair that the Alfa seems to send out and to see the car as an extension of their own personality.

[benje 0]

The V6 in the 166 is alright. Just "alright" (IMO of course). Mine has a *forgot the name* exhaust on it (made by Jetex I think) so it's got a little more character, but still far too civilised when you are used to 205's with Group N systems The GTV and the 3.2 variants such as the 147 GTA are probably a bit more entertaining, being as the 166 is built for refinement. I think the heavy dual mass flywheel robs part of the appeal, as I do find it a little unresponsive. So maybe with a lighter flywheel, an induction filter and a lairy exhaust it might be a little more fun, but for now it's "alright".

 

I'm glad you've said that actually. I have the V6 in GTV form, and some people would have you believe it's the best engine in the world. However If I'm honest, I'm a little underwhelmed by it. Yeah it's smooth, makes a nice noise, and you can pootle round in 4th all day long, but I imagine most 3 Litre V6 engines are similar. Perhaps I need to drive a different V6 to appreciate it! The GTV also has a dual mass flywheel which takes the edge off things. I have a solid one to go on, but can't be bothered to spend the money it until the current one goes (probably pretty soon after I've typed that)

 

One thing though, it does look good with the chrome intake runners compared to the plastic clad things you see nowadays.

 

I'm not judging all Alfa owners based on a few fanboys. I think I said that "some" Alfa owners are a little precious. In fairness, judging by the 166 section of the forum (the only bit I frequent) most of the guys do seem to be reasonablly clued up and willing to get their hands dirty like us over here, rather than being dealer reliant like the buyers of some other marques. I'm also a member of Saab Scene and that is one of those frustrating forums that don't seem to have a lot of traffic, so there's hardly any interesting technical discussions, help is rare, and they even discourage bumping topics Browse through and it's a sea of unanswered questions, or topics with only a single reply. Shame.

 

Apologies, I took the "Alfa owners seems a little bit precious" comment to mean all owners, misinterpretation on my part. There are some clued up people over there, but you do have to sift through some of the crap and because it's a relatively large site, there is a lot of crap posted unfortunately.

[happygoron 2]

Having just been over on the Alfa owners forum, i can see where some of the above opinions of alfa owners stem from. There are lots of Clarkson quotes and some have even said they decided to look at Alfa's as a possible next purchase because of that. Also there seems to be alot of badge snobbery, i.e "when i finish work, i walk past the sea of euroboxes and german barges in the car park and slide into my elegant and classy Alfa." Another thing that made me laugh was that a majority seem to think that all Alfa's are beautiful, stylish machines. I do not find the front or nose on any Alfa beautiful. I think personally that Alfa owners (not all) do want to buy into the whole style, panache,italian flair that the Alfa seems to send out and to see the car as an extension of their own personality.

 

Isn't that the point of a brand though? Like BMW owners all think they own the "ultimate driving machine" when in the vast majority of driving conditions they would never tell the difference between their 3 series and all the other rep mobiles out there. It's the same reason why most people who like cars dislike the korean brands, they are seen as white goods with no brand heritige.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Benje - glad it's not just me that doesn't get what all the fuss is about. I thought the GTV didn't have the DMF as I was reading some stuff over there a few nights back and there was talk of using the lighter solid flywheels, and I thought someone said that the GTV didn't use the DMF.

 

Funnily enough, last night I had a rare browse through their engine forum, and came across a topic in which they were discussing the differences between the Arese V6 and the newer Holden blocked V6. Reading some of the romantic crap that people were saying was quite embarrassing.

 

The way I see it is the Arese unit, is a work of art, with a soul - a truly great engine.

 

The GM Based V6 is just an object for giving forwards motion.

 

Also, look at any brochure of a V6 Arese Car. The photo's of the engine, details etc. This the heart..

 

If you look at the Prodrive S Brochure. (Although very nice brochure it is..) No photo or much mention of it's V6 3.2.

 

So in my opinion, cars with the GM V6 are missing the heart

 

The Arese V6 in all of its forms from 2.5 12V to 3.2 24V is widely regarding as the best production engine ever built. It is a work of art!

 

I am sure the Brera would have felt more alive with the real Alfa V6! and yes it was the last of the 100% Alfa engines.

 

I have owned over the last twenty years gtv6 2.5 v6 , gtv6 with 3.0 v6, 164 3.0 12v v6, 164 3.0 24 valve v6 and am about to purchase a 3.2 v6

notice the trend all v6.. ALFA v6

you would see me dead in a gm alfa hybrid v6 there not even close id rather have a diesel

 

Call me a philistine, but I really don't see what is so special. I've not driven another V6, but to be frank, the difference between the Arese V6 and any other V6 has be nigh and day to deserve this kind of praise, which would mean all other V6s would have to be gutless and sound like a bag of spanners. I doubt that's the case.

 

This comment is the only one that carries any weight for me, because at least the guy actually illustrates a tangible reason for why the engine should be considered special...

 

Correct me if I am wrong but what makes the 'Arese V6' so special is the fact that it was designed by a master, Giuseppe Busso who basically understood that the best configuration for a 6 cylinder engine is a straight 6 and not a vee. His solution was very simple but effective. He designed his V6 so that it was in effect a false straight 6 and got the best of both worlds - Straight 6 balance (firing order is not what you would expect in a V6 and follows straight 6 sequence) and power in a relatively compact/shorter unit that allowed for a better chassis configuration and improved handling.

 

The GM unit is a standard V6 with a standard V6 firing order and is a more compact unit than the Busso but in theory, a straight 6 would be a better solution for a 6 cylinder unit such as BMW use to good effect. Problem is you can't mount a straight 6 transversally.

 

So makes no difference if a new V6 Alfa is built in Arese or not. It needs to be designed by someone who understands what Busso did and by using more modern technology, improve on it.

[benje 0]

Hahahaha nice research there! I only tend to frequent the GTV section, but reading some of the above makes me cringe. It's a shame as the last guy shows, there are actually a few people who have a clue and haven't fallen into Jeremy Clarkson trap.

 

Thing is, I blame JC for the people above. Here's a classic thread, albeit from 2003

 

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/general-alf...y-clarkson.html

 

Seeing as Jeremy Clarkson is probably the most popular motoring journalist around, people hang off his every word. I'm sure it was Clarkson who said it was the best production engine in the world, and hence you see people saying it is, and not really being able to justify it. When people ask what I drive, and I tell them an Alfa, 50% of people will say "ahh you must be a true petrolhead" it's cringeworthy sometimes, but I haven't found a decent way of answering it yet I just nod and smile.

 

Regarding the GTV, I think the early 5 speeders had a solid wheel, but I'm pretty cure all the six speeds and those from a certain date had a DMF. I believe the solid one is something like 8Kg lighter, so I imagine there is a massive difference. I've got one sitting in my garage, but I'm not tackling the job, it's an absolute ballache by all accounts. Luckily I have three specialists around me and have had some *acceptable* quotes to change it.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I've had a go in a mates 147 GTA.

 

Nice thing without a doubt, lovely interior, lovely styling. But I found it quiet, and considering it is supposed to be 250 (?) brake, not all that quick.

 

Having said that we were out on a run and swapped cars, so I had just got out of a 200bhp 205. But nevertheless I couldn't help but feel that if I had spent £8k or whatever it cost, I would be distinctly underwhelmed.