Turbo Manifolds?

[carlh.1 8]

At the moment the car is a home grown tt conversion using mi16 bottom end with 8v head. forged low comp pistons, lightend and balanced bottom end, head work done but standard valves.With the turbo off a 406. the car made 205hp when mapped at emerald at 11psi.

 

With the recent bad weather and no stock car to play with until march the 205's going to have to help my engine work withdrawl simptons!

 

What benifits would i get from changing to an equal length better flowing manifold but still running around the same boost?

 

Or is it a pointless quest??!

 

any advice would be great, thanks carl

[jonnyturbo 3]

i take it your using the 406 manifold? if so anything you probley create will be better then it

 

surely you could use a tt manifold and buy a bigger turbo then a t25 though as it seems to me your mods are going to waste?

[carlh.1 8]

Ye its got the good old 406 manifold on it! haha the flow rate from it is amazing!

 

Ive got a spare t25 in the gararge was thinking of using that with a tt manifold, the 406 turbo would end up suplus because ov the manifold flange shape.

 

what would the manifold change though, would it change the torque curve or power at the same 11psi?

 

What psi are these engines capable of, i still want reliablity and not to blow a piston to the moon!

 

cheers carl

[welshpug 1,661]

Tom Fenton is getting about 205 bhp and 200 lbft from his 1.6 which uses the 406 turbo, he's running 9.2-1 compression.

 

what's your compression ratio?

 

not sure what boost level tom is running.

Edited January 4, 2011 by welshpug

[carlh.1 8]

From reading through his thread it looked to me that he got that power from the 406 manifold then at the end he got the tt manifold, might be wrong though. My spec is pobably around the same spec as that engine apart from cc, just think he runs more boost.

 

just realy want to know if it would be a effective upgrade and not a waste of time and money

 

Dave walker put it up to 16psi when mapping and it tried to jump off the rollers, if i put it back up to that will the turbo just generate to much heat and put my inlet temp to high to create better power?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Wind the boost up, 11psi is nothing. The easy power to be had from a turbo engine is in the boost pressure. Once you are after the last few bhp then you can start messing with manifolds but it isn't worth it when you are still running low boost.

 

I run the standard 406 manifold but remember I have 400cc less to push through it.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Tom Fenton

[carlh.1 8]

the compression ratio is the 1 thing im not sure of, the engine was originaly built by high flow heads it lasted 2500 miles and the head gasket went on the first track day after getting a complete ape to map it in bury who gave the car back to me on the base map so dave found out. because it only made 136bhp!!

 

so i decided to rebuild myself and take it to emerald, how can i find out or work out the compression ratio?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I would contact the engine builder, they should be able to tell you what is inside it.

[carlh.1 8]

just the man i wanted to ask! what would you says a usable psi from these turbos?

[welshpug 1,661]

as Tom said, you wont know unless you take it apart, unless you noted what pistons were in there when the head was off?

 

why not take it to Chipwizards? far closer than emerald, or mikeanics in Congleton.

 

Which Mi16 btw, 1.9 or 2.0?

Edited January 4, 2011 by welshpug

[carlh.1 8]

its the alloy block with 1.9 crank, when i had the engine apart i kept the pistons in the liners to change the o rings. if i ring high flow does the compresion ratio come with the pistons because of the difference in height. to be honest i never knew there was some one in congleton that worked on emerald, i work there quite alot!

[welshpug 1,661]

most mappers will do emerald as far as I know, though they all have their favoured systems, worth a try certainly.

 

http://jc-webs.co.uk/mikeanics/

 

compression ratio is the difference between the capacity of the engine, and the volume left in the cylinder when the piston is at TDC, its made up from the Dish in the piston (or intruder if they are high compression) the gasket volume, and the chamber in the head.

 

HFH should be able to tell you the CC and compression height of the piston at least, easy enough to work out from there the ratio.

Edited January 4, 2011 by welshpug

[carlh.1 8]

cheers i'll give them a ring

just found the receipt its got je low comp pistons in it but that didnt help me much haha

going to a mappers doesnt give me any bits of metal to work with though!

 

thanks for your help

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

just the man i wanted to ask! what would you says a usable psi from these turbos?

 

I use 18psi, but the turbo was a brand new Garrett unit when I built the engine.

[carlh.1 8]

what inlet temps do you get at that i was always told 1 bar was about it for them turbos before they cook the air,

 

I'll wind it up to bar and see if theres any difference to power, i did rebuild the turbo when the hg went, but dont want to put to much strain on an older turbo,

 

dont need to go too mad it still goes like s*it of a shovel!

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

They stay low, never much above 30 deg, I have a decent i/c mounted low at the front of the car though.

[carlh.1 8]

Sorted! i'll get more boost into in next time theres a dry day to play. the highest ive had is 19deg C and thats just with a 2wd cossie cooler behind the grill, so 15/16 psi should still be lowish temps

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

...the turbo was a brand new Garrett unit when I built the engine.

 

....but dont want to put to much strain on an older turbo,

I think a lot of people have turbo problems when trying to increase the boost on a 90k turbo. They don't seem to age that well and I know early ones had problems with the flange cracking so they modified it on later models

[carlh.1 8]

Does the flange cracking problem usualy occur when the engine and turbo isnt left at idle for a while to cool down after a drive or is it just a case of the older cast metal being weeker?

[Arahan 4]

Where in Bury was it mapped, wasnt a place with 2 capital letters followed by the word "Performance" was it?

 

A couple Turbos around our way now, you'll have to nip down for a meet and a chat!

[carlh.1 8]

Haha it was indeed! The thing is though he had a few highly tuned cars there. But when i got the car back he had put the air temp sensor in the air filter instead of the inlet manifold! Who knows how these people make any money!

 

Ye i'll be up for that once the weather gets abit warmer and dryer

[Arahan 4]

Yeah that place has a bad rep, and seems v expensive at that!!

[Jamesboost69 0]

I'm looking into Manifolds for mine at the minute..

 

It managed 225bhp with 220ft torque at 0.6bar= 8.8psi with the same set up as yours ally mi block, forged internals, bigger valve head but instead i've got a tt manifold and t25/28 turbo.

 

Running more boost is fine as long as air/fuel stays in the 14's and exhaust gas doesnt exceed 850!!

 

What size injectors u using??

[carlh.1 8]

Yours made good power from such low boost, that must be down to the larger valves, mines using bocsh 346cc injectors dave walker from emerald said they were at 80%. is your set up kind of like this?

 

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt41/carlh-1/005.jpg

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I personally map the fuel to be in the low 12's under full boost. 14 is too lean for my liking for full throttle/boost, max power is usually achieved about 12.5:1, I map to the rich side of this for a bit of safety.