Best Engine Management For A Xu10j2te (rgx) ...

[Dandu 0]

Hi mates,

 

I am struggling with the idea of replacing the original management system (Motronic MP3.2) of my 205 CTi Turbo. Can you recommend an aftermarket system best suitable for a standard setup (possibly with another turbo in the future)? Is it worth thinking about it, although I didn't alter anything (bigger turbo etc.)? I imagine the prime advantage to be capable of altering the maps (boost, ignition, injection maps etc.) easily and accurately. Bytheway I'm in need to replace the wiring loom anyway. Thus, it seems to be obvious to think about a replacement of the ECU as well.

 

So, what do you prefer? Emerald, Omex, Megasquirt ...? Please put emphasize to the complexity of the setup. The easier, the better for me.

 

Much thanks in advance for your answers,

Dandu

[[L'e$kro] 2]

Hi mates,

 

I am struggling with the idea of replacing the original management system (Motronic MP3.2) of my 205 CTi Turbo. Can you recommend an aftermarket system best suitable for a standard setup (possibly with another turbo in the future)? Is it worth thinking about it, although I didn't alter anything (bigger turbo etc.)? I imagine the prime advantage to be capable of altering the maps (boost, ignition, injection maps etc.) easily and accurately. Bytheway I'm in need to replace the wiring loom anyway. Thus, it seems to be obvious to think about a replacement of the ECU as well.

 

So, what do you prefer? Emerald, Omex, Megasquirt ...? Please put emphasize to the complexity of the setup. The easier, the better for me.

 

Much thanks in advance for your answers,

Dandu

There are many topics about this. They do pretty much the same, depending on how many drivers they have for ignition coil(s) and injectors.

I'm running Megasquirt and there is no match for the price it costs

Buy it already assembled if you can, it will save you the hassle of doubting about your weldings

 

Personally I'd suggest retaining the standard loom so you can reuse your standard ECU if you have trouble with the aftermarket one. You can drive the Bosch MTR04 ignition module like you would drive ignition drivers..

 

Nicolas

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The main point to remember is who is going to set it up and generally go with that ECU as it's more important,

ECU's all do the same thing in a round about way, I now use OMEX personally as it's very simple to map, Very easy to install as the supplied wiring information is good, But if you have never wired a ECU before I would look at someone to do it for you as again it can add allot of mapping time.

[Dandu 0]

I appreciate your comment. ...

 

The idea to change the management system came up first after fiddling (nearly endlessly and unfortunately ineffectively) with the Motronic MP3.2 - maps (in order to raise the boost) last season. It's another story (that has been told / discussed already in the forum). I consider(ed) it more appropriate to have a precise conception of what I'm altering in case a certain hex value is increased or decreased. I expect any aftermarket system to be helpful. Correct me if I'm wrong. My experiments in the past cost me more than one standard ECU ... and it's not very easy to find another. Thus, an aftermarket management system is the way to go.

 

The wiring stuff won't be very difficult, I suppose. The mapping is all I'm worried about. I'd like to do it by myself. But, it's definitely a good idea to have a backup plan involving someone more experienced with the system.

 

Cheers Dandu

 

P.S. Actually I couldn't find a single topic revealing elaborate owners experiences with proper (for a XU10J2TE) aftermarket management systems.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Dandu

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I used a older Omex 500 system on one of these, on .6 bar of boost it made around 220bhp and 240 lb ft of torque, Only mod was 88mm bore everything else was std

[sideways danny 0]

The main point to remember is who is going to set it up and generally go with that ECU as it's more important,

ECU's all do the same thing in a round about way,

 

agree completely. Most ECUs will offer very similar functions, it's normally the software that is the real difference, and every individual who works with aftermarket ECUs will have preferences to how they like to access control strategies.

 

I've spent the best part of a year looking at every different ECU i can find in a sensible price bracket, and becoming comfortable with the software until i decided on what i wanted to sell/supply/fit/work with. Having worked for Omex in the past it was the more obvious choice, but i actually prefered other systems with easier crank trigger setup.

 

Chose a tuner THEN an ECU based on their choicees/advice

[Dandu 0]

@Miles: I thank you for the very first hint to a dedicated aftermarket management system.

 

@sideways danny: I appreciate your comment, too. As mentioned before .. I will talk tuners as well, but I'd like to start with 205 GTI (CTI) owners experiences. And I suppose, there are a lot.

 

I'd like to generate a list like:

 

turbo engine aaa, set up with OMEX xxx, was easy to ... difficult to ...

turbo engine bbb, set up with EMERALD yyy, was easy to ... difficult to ...

turbo engine ccc, set up with MEGASQUIRT zzz, was easy to ... difficult to ...

 

But I appreciate everyones reluctance to reveal ones experiences. I mean, I feel familiar with the strange kind of secrecy inhering in facts about engine management.

 

Cheers Dandu

Edited January 1, 2011 by Dandu

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I can add that most branded ECU's will be easy to install and have back up via email or Phone if you have never done one before along with very clear wiring diag's and manuals.

It's hard for me to say if there easy to install because of my Wiring background.

 

When you get onto this Mega.... stuff it's harder as you've just got the Web and very few tuner's who deal with it because of the DIY basis of it can lead to hours of wasted time getting it to work so it maybe cheap in the short term but quite often work out more expensive.

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

http://www.google.ro/imgres?imgurl=http://...ved=0CBoQ9QEwAQ

 

A 2 second google search for "megasqirt wiring diagram" revealed this and it's more than enough info to build a loom.

 

And what is up with the "mega...stuff" superiority attitude? There are lots of people running "mega...something" without issues and good results. If some people try to tackle DIY when they don't have a DIY bone in their body that's their problem.

 

It's 4 times cheaper than any renowned ECU brand and that means that you'll have to make some compromises and maybe work more, but at the end of the day it does the same thing.

 

I've so had it with this purist attitude. I may be a hypocrite considering that I've not had any personal experience with either yet, but I've drawn my opinions from other peoples experiences and assuming they're not all liars I'll dare and stand by them.

 

I'm sorry I got so wound up on this, but some people have more time to spare than they have money and for those I think Mega...something is a good route, assuming that they have basic understanding of an electrical circuit and how an internal combustion engine works or willingness and capacity to learn.

Edited January 1, 2011 by unariciflocos

[Anthony 1,002]

No one is doubting that Megasquirt can work and work well - I've built a few and have friends that have used them.

 

Unfortuntately, there are alot of people that have gone down that route not really knowing what they're doing because they're trying to save money, and had no end of problems and caused the mapper no end of headaches, I suspect with the mapper taking the flak when the results aren't as expected or when the ECU doesn't work properly. I'm not surprised that many mappers refuse to touch them.

 

Megasquirts flexibility and DIY build is both its greatest asset and, ultimately, it's biggest downfall. For the majority of people out there, an off-the-shelf simple and proven mainstream ECU is a much better bet as it is far easier to install and ultimately get the results you want.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I will say perosnally if anyone wanted a Mega'x' fitted I wouldn't do it on a business basis, Because I don't have the time to find the info and work out any problems and thats why I always use a Branded part + not having the Web at work.

You find that generally more people know about Omex, Emerald etc and most UK mappers are happy to map it hense again making it easy and save on mapping time which is expensive so you might save on one side and spend more on the other, Plus finally resale value,

 

A branded ECU will hold around 75% of it's value for a good 10 years.

 

A friend of mine has a car with Mega something (Just uses the ignition) and has spent a fortune on sorting it out, And was suposed to be set up by a well known company up North and it makes less power than a std Mi on Injection (2 different sets of rollers) so to save time and money we're just sticking a Dizzy on it to see what happens to the Peak Power Figure

 

Just some pro's and con's of the system in my eye's

[matyasg 0]

We're getting back to the good old "anti megasquirt" flame again

Megasquirt due to its DIY attitude requires a LOT more knowledge about basics of low voltage electricity, how does the engine and ignition work and so on.

If you're such kind of people that's great, go for it! That's why I've chosen MS.

To tell the truth I've done a lot of efforts to learn this, and yes it was not that easy at all. Usually it's not a "do the wiring, plug the ECU, get on the dyno and go away setup". That's why it's cheap. It's the easiest way accusing Megasquirt because of a problem, however there are lot of fundamental mistakes in the config or the wiring inside. (weak spark, bad earthes, noises all around, bad dwell times and so on). That is what I see about these things usually.

It's very easy to ask silly questions on forums waiting for an ultimate solution, without any kind of willingness of learn.

 

If you buy a so called branded ECU, you buy all this knowledge, built in the ECU price.

 

There is no good and bad ECU choice without a person. Both can be good and wrong as well, depends on the person who will install and map it.

[Dandu 0]

Hi mates,

 

I'm grateful for your comments. I feel sorry, if my thread pick a quarrel about Megasquirt. It was not my intention. The idea of the thread was rather simple: just collecting owners experiences with different aftermarket engine management systems (product, price, time to install, difficulties, durability etc.) - giving me the chance to select the proper one for me (perhaps someone else, too). I hope, we can go back to it again.

 

So ... which aftermarket system do you use? Was it easy to set up (of course it's useful to get to know your background)? What was difficult? Which mistakes did you make? Are you satisfied? Would you prefer to buy another one? How long is it since you installed it? I suppose, you see my point. So, let's stop quarrelling!

 

Much thanks for your help!

 

Bye Dandu

Edited January 3, 2011 by Dandu

[welshpug 1,655]

I don't see any quarrelling apart from those in the Megasquirt/Megajolt bandwagon TBH, Miles simply gave his view as a professional builder and installer of wiring looms to race and fast road cars.

 

As Anthony said they CAN work well, but only if you put enough time and money into them, which kinda defeats the object of the system in itself!

 

If you are after something easy to install and haven't much experience in wiring or electronics then Megasquirt really isn't for you IMO.

 

 

One thing you have missed though, the Bosch Motronic ecu can be mapped, so it may be more cost effective to simply build a new loom for the original ecu, BUT as with all Aftermarket ecu systems you do need to find who can map them before going ahead, no point fitting an ecu if you have to travel a few hundred Kilometres to get it mapped when there is someone perfectly capable much closer but for whatever reason chose not to map whatever system you used.

Edited January 3, 2011 by welshpug

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

[Dandu 0]

@welshpug: I'm well aware of the possibility to keep the engine management off-the-shelf. Unfortunately I can't compare this idea (work, expenses, availability of tuners around me, tuning flexibility, reliability etc.) with other options (Omex, Emerald, Megasquirt etc.), if I don't know of any in detail. I can't figure out any pros and cons. Therefore it's very helpful if any detailed experience is revealed. Miles made a good start.

 

Bye Dandu

Edited January 3, 2011 by Dandu

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

No one is doubting that Megasquirt can work and work well - I've built a few and have friends that have used them.

 

Unfortuntately, there are alot of people that have gone down that route not really knowing what they're doing because they're trying to save money, and had no end of problems and caused the mapper no end of headaches, I suspect with the mapper taking the flak when the results aren't as expected or when the ECU doesn't work properly. I'm not surprised that many mappers refuse to touch them.

 

Megasquirts flexibility and DIY build is both its greatest asset and, ultimately, it's biggest downfall. For the majority of people out there, an off-the-shelf simple and proven mainstream ECU is a much better bet as it is far easier to install and ultimately get the results you want.

Anthony sums it up nicely.

 

Indeed the megasquirt works, but it can be no walk in the park. Its no plug and play. My car runs a MSII and seems to be fine, but its taken hours and hours over a few years to get it right, along with some custom boards and mods. But thats what signed up for, I wanted something I could poke and prod, play with the code etc, I wasnt looking for a plug in and go solution.

 

I can understand why professionals steer clear, as the MS can be a time pit! and in business time is money! Also a few badly made / installed system can give something a bad name, which on the whole is unjustified. Totally understand a business not wanting to take something on thats could just be a load of hassle.

 

If you want to get your hands electronically dirty and have the time a MS will work for you, but if you just want to plug-in and go the maybe you should look else where.

 

 

Mad.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I've used megasquirt and bar a couple of small problems I found it worked quite well, the only reason I went the MS route was cost and I knew I could do it, if I had the money I might have gone for a branded ecu, but still probably mapped it myself, it would have been less work than the megasquirt, but in a way, less fun! (IMO)

 

On the subject of motronic being remapped, this is something that I'm looking into, if you want to do your own remapping it's not as good as an aftermarket ecu, on the fly mapping requires expensive equiptment, you can spend a few hours/days/weeks etc. researching how to remap the standard ecu, with the biggest problems being finding the actual maps, finding out which map is for what, and finding out the scalling of the maps, then manually go through datalogs if you have them, or use (possibly educated) guesswork to do the mapping, reflash the ecu with your new maps, take it for a run/to the rollers, re-edit the maps, reflash, and so on. With the mp3.2 needing to be removed from the car to be flashed it adds even more time and messing on to the job, and in your case (mp3.2 to run a turbo) you are still limited to 1 bar of boost by the map sensor, this can be changed but requires a lot more research into the ecu code.

 

I'd say if you can afford it, go for a branded ecu (I can't help with which one, I have no experiance of any!), if you fancy a challenge and don't mind your car not running great if you hit any problems then go for megasquirt.

[Dandu 0]

@madspikes: I agree with you. Megasquirt is an option for me, but probably not the best.

 

@Rob_Turbo: It seems like you've read my mind. I totally agree with you. I don't know how often I opened the ECU last season ... a dozen times. I made a lot of progress, but never had an acceptable final software. I expect a lot of advantages in knowing exactly which map is for what, which scaling it has and what alterations result in. But the best will be, I can do it on-the-fly. ... By the way I'm need to thank you. As far as I remember, you've been the one who sold the ECU to me. Unfortunately it did not survive my tests, but gave me the chance to learn a lot.

 

Bye Dandu

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Any of the well known name ECU's are straightforward and can be configured to suit what you are doing. I have used DTA and Emerald and would happily use either again.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I could do with a mappable ECU and have been offered Megasquirts etc in the past with the promise of cheap power gains, but have refrained as simple risk analysis for me indicates it is going to be a ballache! I currently don't have the skill to solder it all together, the time to spend constantly tweaking it nor the money to fund the rolling road or any mistakes I make. I also don't really have the inclination to learn all of this stuff!!

 

A more commonly known brand of ECU does also have a better resale value too and (to me) indicates the amount of investment made on a car which gives an indication of the quality of the overall build (sorry if that sounds a bit snobbish, but I would personally pay much more for a 205 on throttle bodies and a branded ECU compared to bike bodies and and a Megasquirt).

 

If I was after an ECU I would buy a well known one as recommended by a rolling road I trust and with good support. I would want to fit it, map it once to the optimum for my setup and then spend the rest of my time behind the wheel as opposed to under the bonnet.

 

An analogy: When I had an extension built on my house, I didn't want to learn bricklaying, so I got a builder in. I asked the builder to recommend an architect that he liked as those were the two who had to work together. The builder got in a plumber and an electrician he knew and trusted. I just wanted to live in the finish product and personalise it with a bit of simple DIY and decorating. A friend of mine down the road built a lot of his extension himself but it is a bit tatty in parts and took forever.

 

For me, if I can't afford to do it right then I don't do it. I also know that a temperamental car will sap your enthusiasm for the project. However it all come down to your determination, free time and funds and how these rank in importance.

[[L'e$kro] 2]

If you are afraid of Megasquirt's reliability, just buy one already assembled...

Then it will be like any other aftermarket management, but for cheaper...

The new Ms3 with all options will do pretty much anything you could possibly dream of, and for half of the price you would invest into a similar spec'd OMEX or Haltech

 

The Tuner Studio software is really good for mapping, and with it's Ve Analyze Live (Autotune) feature, you can do a good job by just defining a good AFR target table...

I didn't touch the VE (Fuel) table even once, and my car is really "streetable", more than with it's standard ECU. It's my daily driver.

 

The Bosch MP3.2 is not that bad if you know how to tune it:

http://www.youtube.com/user/eraser5169

423bhp 8v turbo engine on standard management. Map sensor upgraded to a 2.5bar one. I think mapping was done on the road using an emulator instead of the eprom...

 

Nico