After Market Ecu For Xu7j4rs?

[tomcolinjones 26]

Hello, The XU7 with Xsara vts head will be going in shortly, i understand that the standard ecu will need re-mapping due to the reduced cc e.t.c.

So due to the lack of pug ecu mappers localy, i have decided to consider aftermarket management. the engine will be running as standard (no itb / carbs).

What i want to know is, are there any 'plug and play' 3 row gti6 aftermarket ecu's? so i can use the standard loom.

if not, what loom do i need? what parts do i need? which ecu e.t.c

i am trying to make it as cheap as possible, as i dont want to spend thousands on management, so cheapest option for me would be best. i just want it to be mapable at a local tuners, and for it to run as it should.

 

thanks

 

tom.

[welshpug 1,655]

If you want an aftermarket ecu that'll run all the gti6 management components you need to spend a little more on the ecu, as it runs 4 coilpacks in sequential spark and ignition, i.e a DTA S60 rather than S40, the forthcoming emerald K6 over the K3, Omex 710 not 600, otherwise you can use a wasted spark coilpack from the 135 bhp xu10, or the XU7 coilpack (same item) and run the cheaper ecu's.

 

Not sure if any of these will run the 4 wire Magneti Idle valve, but getting a Bosch 3 wire fitted isn't a big job, or mapping it to use advance to control idle with a slightly wider throttle opening.

 

The original MM ecu can be mapped to suit, though the only place I know you can get this done is at Chipwizards in Rochdale, but plenty travel much further than from Oswestry.

 

 

 

If you do choose to go with aftermaket management, find your local mapper first and ask what their favoured ecu is.

 

Any of them can be made plug and play to an extent, but not off the shelf, the only one I know that can be supplied like that is a DTA from Martin Fox (MEF motorsport)

 

details here (specifically for a 106 that uses the MM ecu, but making it to work the gti6 loom isn't much different at all)

 

http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2008/sh...p;highlight=mef

 

 

your cheapest option on the face of it would be to just make the trip to see Wayne at Chipwizards, afaik he charges £400 for the MM ecu as it needs socketing and a new chip fitting before the mapping can take place.

Edited December 18, 2010 by welshpug

[tomcolinjones 26]

Great help as always welshpug. Took you some time to write that, i am thankful.

[tomcolinjones 26]

Chipwizzards it is then! and i guess once the ecu has the pigy back chip thing on it, further maping would be cheaper?

[tomcolinjones 26]

Does anyone have or build gti6 looms for megasquirt? to run either tu coilpack or wasted spark. prices?

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Does anyone have or build gti6 looms for megasquirt? to run either tu coilpack or wasted spark. prices?

 

if you are going megasquirt be prepared for some head scratching.

 

i built my loom from scratch using the supplied plug and fly leads when i bought the unit.

 

im still not running a idle valve but i do beleive the ms ecu will run a bosh 3 pin one? mine runs fine even from cold without one tbh

 

im using a ford wasted coil system and it only needs 3 wires to run.

 

if you need to have a gander at a wiring diagram let me know and i can email mine for you to use at youre own risk

 

pete

[tomcolinjones 26]

Still unsure about what to do. i will never go to running itb or carbs in this 205 so its not like i need aftermarket ecu. and once the chip has been fitted by chipwizzards,im guessing its cheaper to get re-maps? how hard is it to set up the car from my laptop? and download and apply custom maps e.t.c? it would probarbly still work out cheaper if i took the car and MS to a tuner to have it set up, than re-map the gti6 system wouldnt it? and i could change parts freely, and get it remapped localy.

[welshpug 1,655]

MS would likely cost you a lot more than a straight £400 for mapping the MM ecu.

 

As for further mapping, I don't know anyone other than Wayne that can do them.

 

 

I'd get a known Brand rather than MS unless you are confident in your abilities and can map it yourself, there's not many mappers that will gladly map MS.

 

Have a read of Sandy's comments on his experiences of MS here

 

I'm going to try a DTA S40 and make an adapter to plug it into the original loom like Martin Fox does, as shown on the thread I linked to.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

we aint getting into this again surely?

 

do some reading and make youre choice, end of.

 

dont be swayed by peoples opinions. what works for one doesnt for another and all that.

 

i'll dig out the wiring diagram i have and email it, then its up to you

[tomcolinjones 26]

had a read of the posts, and emailed the bloke who makes the DTA ecu inside a ECU, seems an easy option, and i keep the gti6 loom, and DTA are easyer to get maped around here. waiting for reply, but i think it will cost around 600 all in. until then i can get the car running on a unlocked gti6 ecu, not to be driven tho. dont wana end up melting smething

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

DP engineering do a PNP ECU for these mind I don;t think it's a popular one over here, Having a local expert near me know and having looked at various software I'm going back over to Omex on most things as it's so much more user friendly and very quick to map,

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Am I missing something here? You are going to remove the head from a perfectly good GTI6 engine, which will make around 170bhp on its standard ECU, to build an 1800 16v, which will need an ECU at around £600, and will maybe make 150bhp?

 

Why not just stick the GTI6 engine in there and go from there?

[tomcolinjones 26]

Am I missing something here? You are going to remove the head from a perfectly good GTI6 engine, which will make around 170bhp on its standard ECU, to build an 1800 16v, which will need an ECU at around £600, and will maybe make 150bhp?

 

Why not just stick the GTI6 engine in there and go from there?

 

the alloy block from the xu7 make the engine about 40 kilos lighter than the gti6 and about the same as a 8v gti or a 1.9 mi16, and aparently the alloy block is stronger than the iron block engines. i am not sure why. and it is oversquare, (bore is bigger than the stroke) so the engine will rev freely. and at higher revs due to less rotational mass of the internals, and the pistons not traveling as far. sure it will be down on output compared to the gti6 but i am doing it to save weight, and for the free reving, and i recon if somone did a power to weigt ratio for both engines in a 205, they wouldnt be far off eachoter. but i recon the 1.8 would out brake, out handle, and outlast a gti6 lump at high revs in a 205, so i think it is worth while, definately.

[welshpug 1,655]

I doubt its 40 kilos.

[tomcolinjones 26]

I doubt its 40 kilos.

 

i must have read it wrong somewhere then

 

how much lighter is it?

[tomcolinjones 26]

DP engineering do a PNP ECU for these mind I don;t think it's a popular one over here, Having a local expert near me know and having looked at various software I'm going back over to Omex on most things as it's so much more user friendly and very quick to map,

 

So do you know anyone that has used the VEMS setup? would a tuner work with it? it works out at about 750 pounds for the ecu, without the closed loop lambda option. bit steep.

 

Ill wait for a reply from the email i sent regarding the DTA ecu inside a gti6 ecu case.

 

seems that the alloy block is 20 kilo lighter than the gti6, doesnt seem as worth while now :-(

[Sandy 191]

VEMS is essentially megasquirt. It cleverly sounds a bit like an OE system from the name and people are constantly telling me "no, it just looks like megsquirt..." etc etc, but mapping wise it's the same problems that I've had with megasquirts under a different banner and again re-sale value is virtually nil.

 

I hope some of you read what I said in Welshpug's link. I've no axe to grind (I don't "sell" ECUs), other than the frustration I feel when people struggle to get a nice end result to their project because of iffy hardware.

 

It's my opinion of course, but hopefully a qualified opinion!

Edited December 19, 2010 by Sandy

[tomcolinjones 26]

VEMS is essentially megasquirt. It cleverly sounds a bit like an OE system from the name and people are constantly telling me "no, it just looks like megsquirt..." etc etc, but mapping wise it's the same problems that I've had with megasquirts under a different banner and again re-sale value is virtually nil.

 

I hope some of you read what I said in Welshpug's link. I've no axe to grind (I don't "sell" ECUs), other than the frustration I feel when people struggle to get a nice end result to their project because of iffy hardware.

 

It's my opinion of course, but hopefully a qualified opinion!

 

Thanks for your input, it sounds like its only Emerald, Omex and DTA that are the only ones worth going for? and we are talking a huge amount for those. although for what you actualy get it may be cheap, but in money, there is a lot of it to be parted with!

[sideways danny 0]

So do you know anyone that has used the VEMS setup?

 

 

I do. Every one of them has changed to something else, and has instantly seen better results. I've recently sold a Canems ECU to a customer who's had issues with VEMS for 2 years since he had it. Now running perfectly, with user friendly software, and support on the end of the phone or by email. VEMS no longer even have a UK representative as Rob Humphries dropped out around 2 years ago, so you'll be dealing with Hungary or relying on forums when (not if) you have problems

[tomcolinjones 26]

im am going off the idea now of the alloy block on standard injection. purely because of the cost for the ecu e.t.c.

i will build a alloy block engine, either mi16 (s16) head, or another gti6 head if i can get one easily. run on carbs with a dizzy setup, in a pure track car. but not my current 205, as it needs to be on standard injection for the road rallys i want to do in the future.

 

thanks everyone for the help, as i had no idea about aftermarket ecu's, and now i know a little bit at least i know that they arent cheap!

[Sandy 191]

It's worth knowing what a money pit management can be with the worng choices.

[Matt Holley 11]

im am going off the idea now of the alloy block on standard injection. purely because of the cost for the ecu e.t.c.

i will build a alloy block engine, either mi16 (s16) head, or another gti6 head if i can get one easily. run on carbs with a dizzy setup, in a pure track car. but not my current 205, as it needs to be on standard injection for the road rallys i want to do in the future.

 

thanks everyone for the help, as i had no idea about aftermarket ecu's, and now i know a little bit at least i know that they arent cheap!

 

I would just stick a standard gti6 in on standard managment tbh, less hassle and an instant 170 bhp, the power and torque out weigh the weight.

[tomcolinjones 26]

I would just stick a standard gti6 in on standard managment tbh, less hassle and an instant 170 bhp, the power and torque out weigh the weight.

thats the plan, ill run a alloy block engine in another 205 not destined for competition regulations!

[Anthony 1,002]

thats the plan, ill run a alloy block engine in another 205 not destined for competition regulations!

You do realise that a GTi-6 engine will face the same issues with competition regs/classes, don't you?

[tomcolinjones 26]

You do realise that a GTi-6 engine will face the same issues with competition regs/classes, don't you?

i am alowed to run any engine in a car that is the same manufacturer, as long as it in n/a and on standard injection or no more than 2 chokes with a single carb if the engine was carb originaly, its only come into play in the last few years. a few lads are using mi16's but so far the only gti6 i know of in the local club events is a 306.