1.9 Gti Problem - Cornwall Newbie Needs Urgent Help Please!

[neilrallying 0]

OK, help please! Got to get my 205 on the road sharpish as I am losing the use of my current set of wheels, but can't get the little blighter to start!

 

I have a 1.9 GTI fitted with 6 speed GTI6 gearbox, bought as unfinished project with a blown engine.

 

I have had the old engine out, now fitted with a 1.9 challenge spec motor, MI16 flywheel and clutch (the old engine had a standard 205 flywheel assembly).

 

When I got the car it did not have a crank sensor fitted - just the main loom plug hanging into empty space! (along with lots of other bits missing/in boxes, usual project scenario).

 

I have got a crank sensor from a 2.0 petrol 806 as I have been told that this is what I need to work with the MI16 flywheel and 6 speed box (although not by a Pug specialist so could be wrong?).

 

The sensor plugs are different so won't fit together, loom colours do not match between the sensor & the main loom (have removed the shielding in a small localised area to check them, so can anyone help with what I need to do.

 

When turning the engine over it spins fine, however I have no fuel getting to the fuel rail.

 

Will this be because the ECU is receiving no signal from the crank sensor, or is it likely to be another problem as well?

 

Have not yet checked the spark.

 

I'm OK with oily bits but useless on the wiring front so any help/advice will be really very much appreciated.

 

Would also appreciate anyone who knows what parts I defo need to make the combo work, i.e crank sensor from a ...... for example.

 

I also have one wire that I do not know where it needs to attach. Large brown on its own, sprouting from the engine loom near the inlet manifold, going into a large wide connector plug with two flat spade connectors inside - just can't see where anywhere that it should/could go?

 

If there were anyone in Cornwall who might be able to come and take a peek to point me in the right direction I am happy to pay in cash or beer tokens!!!!!

 

Pretty good with spanners and preparation, just never done modded 205's before so steep learning curve compared to good old Classic Fords.

 

Fingers crossed someone in 205 land can help me so that I don't end up walking everywhere over Christmas!

 

Cheers,

 

Neil.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Hi Neil.

 

Firstly, welcome to the forum, great to see another member down here. First things first, all but the very last GTis have an injection system that don't require a crank sensor(I'm mnot even sure if the later ones use one - never owned one) What year is your car? more interesting may be where you have plugged in a crank sensor?

 

Your errant wire sounds like it's a power lead (poss for the cooling fan) that should plug into the shunt box mounted on nthe slam panel. If there has been a K&N or similar fitted, the shunt box is probably floating loose somewhere in the front of the engione bay, so trace the mian +ve wire from the battery and you will find it This wire may even solve your woes, I can't remember offhand exactly what does and doesn't work if various wires are left unplugged from the shunt box - but you do get your symptoms if one of the fuse-like blades of the shunt box are taken out there are also 2 x 30A fuses to check on said shunt box.

 

I'm headed up to Oxford tomorrow - unfortunately the chances of me getting time to have a looky before Xmas are extremely thin -

 

but there are a couple of other thing you can check easily if the above doesn't help. Firstly, check the connections coming from the dizzy, and the condition of the dizzy wire itself if the ecu doesn't get a signal from the dizzy to show the engines moving - nothing works!

 

If you have spark, it's possible that the fuse for the pump needs changing (far right as you look at the fuse box) or the tachymetric relay (under the dash by the ecu on most models) isn't doing it's job. You can wire the fuel pump directly to the battery to see if it fires - but this is NOT anything other than a diagnostic, don't drive it ilke that.

 

Somewhere to start at least - let us know if you have spark.

[woodsy 0]

Hi mate and welcome too, can you get a picture up of the plug that you cant find what it connects into. Also as earlier post said you wont have a crank sensor unless if its from a very late model which i doubt. It wont matter what clutch and flywheel you use as your motor shouldnt need the crank sensor.

[neilrallying 0]

Hi mate and welcome too, can you get a picture up of the plug that you cant find what it connects into. Also as earlier post said you wont have a crank sensor unless if its from a very late model which i doubt. It wont matter what clutch and flywheel you use as your motor shouldnt need the crank sensor.

 

 

Huge thanks to both of the replies so far - very helpful.

 

The shell is an E plate, as to the age of any of the parts in it I have no idea as it was a trackday project for the previous owner who wasn't too fussy about the way that he put things together!

 

I have been tidying it all up and trying to make sense of everything at the same time so it is getting there.

 

Knowing that I can discount the crank sensor is great, will help me to narrow down the search. Relays sound like something to check out, they seem to be everywhere. Checked the three in the engine compartment by the rad header on bulkhead but was not aware of the one near the ECU under the dash so I will search that out and check it tomorrow.

 

Will also try to get pics done tomorrow if I can.

 

Thanks again,

 

Neil.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

What engine managment are you using because as said, the standard 205 Jetronic system as fitted to an E plate 205 GTI doesn't use a crank sensor.

 

The only relay for the engine management is the tachymtric relay which will be either under the dash by the ecu in the drivers footwell area or in a small black box in front of the battery tray depnding on what phase your car is, phase 1 or phase 1.5.

 

Graham.

[P_Monty 2]

Another vote for the tachy relay - especially if you're not getting a spark either. (It could be the imobiliser, but they usually take out the starter and fuel pump)

[neilrallying 0]

Hi all,

 

Quick update as I have not really touched the car since Christmas but am now looking to get it back on the MOT'd and running ready for a new tax disc and regular road use from April onwards :-)

 

Taking on board previous suggestions I sourced a new fuel pump relay and replaced - no change.

 

I then ran a temporary feed to the pump to check its operation and no problem, fuel at the fuel rail.

 

However even with the temp live feed providing fuel it would not start, perhaps suggesting that the injectors may have fuel to them, but are not firing.

 

So to summarise where I am as of tonight, turning ignition swith on does not trigger fuel pump to initialise.

 

I can get fuel pump running by putting a live feed to it so know that the pump itself is fine.

 

I have changed the relay for one that, although second hand, was definately working fine just one day ago so pretty confident that the problem is not there.

 

The large brown feed in the engine bay does not fit into the shunt box, the housing on the wire is too wide to go into any of the apertures on the shunt box.

 

The crank sensor plug has been disconnected - from looking at the Haynes manual wiring diagrams (which I don't find particularly helpful as there are no colour references) it looks like the crank sensor was plugged into the diagnostic plug in the loom.

 

Fuel pump fuse in fuse box is fine.

 

Must admit I have not checked if there is a spark at plugs - and now back at home (car is at a friends place) so can't check that tonight.

 

Engine turns over on the key absolutely fine, spinning quickly and freely.

 

Any flashes of inspiration from forumland would be very much appreciated ;-)

 

Cheers,

 

Neil.