Full Suspension + Engine Mounts

[J_Orr 0]

Hello!

 

Basically I'm looking to freshen up my 175k miles STDT with some new legs. I'm looking for something comfortable for the road (as it is a work horse), but something slightly uprated from what would be on as standard.

 

I have done some research and found that 306 GTi6 rear dampers would probably be my best choice? But what would be for the front? Would 1.9 GTi be good for it or something else?

 

Also I'm looking to replace the engine and gearbox mounts. I have some Group N mounts left over from when I had the 1.9 track car, but fear these would be far too stiff you the diesel and probably rattle my teeth out! Can anyone recommend a good (i.e. cheap) place to get OEM mounts?

 

 

I do realise most of this will have been covered before but I have done my best and put in a good few hours of research into this already.

 

 

Thanks in advance!

[shalmaneser 26]

depends how much work you're willing to do.

 

A fill GTI suspension swap would be ideal, they ride very well for how well they handle and since you've got an STDT you've already got a gti style subframe.

 

So fitting 205 gti front dampers, springs, ARB if you can be arsed, and a (rebuilt!) GTI rear beam would be ideal.

 

I think you may have some issues with rubbing at the back end though, I'm not sure if the STDT has the slightly wider GTI bodyshell at the back - I suspect it does because it has the extended arches but I'm sure that someone will be along to advise you in a moment.

 

It's a fairly involved process though and the STDT is a pretty tidy handler anyway, the easy option would be to replace the wishbone bushes which will be shot after 175K, put a Group N rear beam mount kit on, rebuild the standard beam, maybe fit a slightly wider ARB at the back and generally spruce up the suspension - new top mount bearings for instance made a big difference on my car, it's all about incremental improvement.

 

I found the group N engine (and rear beam for that matter) mounts to be fine from an NVH point of view, might be different with a rattly diesel though!

 

I'd suggest 306 dampers may overdamp the rear if you're on 18mm TBs (or whatever a STDT has), don't know for sure though.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

STDT is basically s 1.6GTI set is it not? Its also go the bigger arches like the GTI so rubbing is not a problem genrally. If your looking to just spruce up the suspension not a complete rebuild I'd go for new GTI front shocks on uprated springs, eibachs? New bushes on the sub frame - OE are genrally well up to the job, 'group N' beam and front strut mounts and if budget allows a rebuilt beam.

 

I think that would massively improve any sloppy handerling. I'm sure you do any way but making sure tyre pressures are good and tracking is all spot on makes a big difference.

 

Ali

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

STDT is basically s 1.6GTI set is it not? Its also go the bigger arches like the GTI so rubbing is not a problem genrally.

The STDT should already have the GTI front subframe, arb & wishbones but the springs & shocks are different, springs being massively longer so simply fitting some standard GTI shocks & springs will see an approx 30mm drop on the front, slightly more if you use 309 GTI springs.

 

Rubbing shouldn't be an issue for standard sized 15's, they have 185/60-14's as standard.

 

I wouldn't fit lowered GTI springs on one anyway, the pic below was mine on 309 GTi springs;

 

 

The rear beam is at best XS spec with a spindley 14mm arb so fitting GTI torsion & antiroll bars on a refurbed beam is about the best plan imo, its what i did on mine & iirc Anthony did on his.

 

As for the engine mounts, I'd just replace them with standard mounts, the amount of vibration through a compression engine such as a diesel could make the car rattle like you wouldn't believe, more than on a petrol equivilent afaik.

 

Graham.

[J_Orr 0]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I think mine has been lowered already as it is. The rear torsion definitely has anyway. I may investigate when the snow goes what I actually have. I only discovered the other day that it has grooved discs on the front when checking for a warped disc!

 

If it doesn't already have 1.9 GTi shocks on I will get them and try to also get 309 GTi springs on them, with fresh Baker BM top mounts etc.

 

 

How far can I go freshening up the rear beam without taking it off? I would put group N Baker BM mounts on. Don't think I would go as far as changing torsion and ARBs.

 

 

I do want to change the mounts so that will be done. Does anyone know where the best place to get them is? Do Baker BM do OEM?

 

 

Cheers!

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

How far can I go freshening up the rear beam without taking it off?

Everything can be replaced with the beam on the car, every part of a refurb except painting the centre tube.

If you're doing the refurb then it taks no longer to fit the GTI bars & thy can be found cheap enough, especially if you are fitting GTI bits up front imo.

 

Might as well get the Baker mounts & cheaper than oe afaik with your 10% forum discount.

 

Graham.

[shalmaneser 26]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I think mine has been lowered already as it is. The rear torsion definitely has anyway. I may investigate when the snow goes what I actually have. I only discovered the other day that it has grooved discs on the front when checking for a warped disc!

 

If it doesn't already have 1.9 GTi shocks on I will get them and try to also get 309 GTi springs on them, with fresh Baker BM top mounts etc.

 

 

How far can I go freshening up the rear beam without taking it off? I would put group N Baker BM mounts on. Don't think I would go as far as changing torsion and ARBs.

 

 

I do want to change the mounts so that will be done. Does anyone know where the best place to get them is? Do Baker BM do OEM?

 

 

Cheers!

 

Easier in my opinion just to buy an old 1.6 or 1.9 rear beam for £50 and refurb it off the car, then just bolt it on and you're off. It's only six bolts give or take to take the rear beam off and can easily be done in an afternoon, whereas the refurb process it a massive pain in the arse, involved lots of hammering and swearing and need specialist tools like presses, better to take your time and do it in the garage (or in the kitchen for me!)

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

the refurb process it a massive pain in the arse, involved lots of hammering and swearing and need specialist tools like presses, better to take your time and do it in the garage (or in the kitchen for me!)

A beam refurb on the car can be done in less time than needed to remove a beam as long as the radius arm shafts are ok, which if they are also means you don't need a press.

 

Graham.

[shalmaneser 26]

A beam refurb on the car can be done in less time than needed to remove a beam as long as the radius arm shafts are ok, which if they are also means you don't need a press.

 

Graham.

 

true enough but most are well past it these days!

[Anthony 1,002]

Given how little extra work it is to remove the beam from the car compared to strip and rebuild it in situ, I'd remove it every time - no question whatsoever. It will be much easier to refurb and inspect when it's off the car as well IMO, especially if you've not done one before.

 

To talk about replacing and upgrading other parts of the suspension and not touching the rear beam seems distinctly short-sighted to me, seeing as the chances are the beam will be the worse condition item of the lot! If it is original then I would be very surprised if the shafts and bearings are not well past their best by now.

 

As said, GTi torsion and anti-roll bars are a massive improvement over the standard STDT beam setup, and a set of standard 205 or 309 GTi front springs lowers the car pretty much spot on (and retains excellent ride quality). That's the setup I used to run on mine, coupled with some 1.9 GTi front brakes, and I was very happy with it