Throttle Body Question

[locosaki 0]

I'm looking for throttle bodies now after turning down a bike carb set up !!

 

Anyway, moving on from that, Myself and another member from here who is also looking for bodies have had a discussion about what to go for.

 

I personally like the colin satchell set up but my mate has been guided away from this for what ever reason and has got a jenvey set up in his sights (for a good price might I add) Jammy bugger.

 

What is the consensus on this as I'm a little fresh here.

 

I do realise that management is a good proportion of the kit but I'm talking soley about the induction side of things.

 

Opinions welcome please !!!

[Baz 421]

You'll get a clouded view on here IMO.

 

Despite the details varying, the Satchell kit is very good at what it's supposed to do, but, and someone correct me if i'm wrong as details are always sparce, they're essentially used bike bodies welded onto a chopped up standard manifold. IMO not really comparible to brand new Jenveys etc made for that very purpose.

 

The Jenvey route is very good at what it's supposed to do, but isn't 'optimised the way that the Satchell setup is with it's longer runners etc, for the very reason that it's a simple off the shelf bolt-on kit that requires no extra faff like the other may to make it work well, moving the rad, chopping slam panel/putting the bonnet on pins etc etc.

 

IMO they're both very similar when you consider pricing versus time/part sourcing etc.

[welshpug 1,657]

Colin Satchell's bodies are most commonly Bike bodies bolted to a custom fabricated manifold, not a chopped up standard item, IIRC his earlier ones were based on Lotus bodies.

 

The bike body based units have a properly worked out throttle quadrant that works with the standard throttle pedal as well, so no throttle sensitivity issues, typically they work off the right hand end not centrally so have no need for any bulky linkages.

 

They are a simple bolt on item though not off the shelf as such, as you need to find a set of bike bodies for Colin to use, they can be supplied as a complete package for you to bolt straight on, and in total I believe work out a fair chunk cheaper than an off the shelf Jenvey Kit when you add on all the extra bits you can't do without (fuel rail, throttle linkage, and a few other bits)

 

You don't have to do any chopping up or fitting bonnet pins to use a Satchell kit, but you will gain quite a bit from doing so, the same goes for the Jenvey kit if you want a decent length inlet tract.

 

 

 

I believe DrSarty is offering something similar, but I know no more specific details of that.

 

 

My view is simply of what I have seen used over a few years, I have no experience of paying any of my own hard cash for throttle bodies (as yet) as well as experience of fitting some throttle bodies and driving a car with a homebrew throttle body arrangement.

Edited November 26, 2010 by welshpug

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Every set up is a compromise of some sort. What you shouldn't really compromise on is build quality which negatively affects performance. Or perhaps you could say makes you look like a cheap skate.

 

For the latter I would class any form of Bogg Bros type el cheapo silicone hose and jubilee clip affair, as many have been there and it's just not stable or really good enough.

 

Baz - I think you should retract your comments on Colin's set up as it certainly is not how you describe with regards to welding and reuse of any existing manifold. It is a professionally hand made set-up at excellent value, and works. Used bike bodied or not, as they hardly wear due to function and Japanese build quality, I think that point is irrelevant and even Sandy argues that they are better made than the Jenvey set up, are ready for staged injectors from day 1 and quite a bit cheaper than Jenveys.

 

Having said that, they are still a compromise as no inlet can really be perfect. It will be optimised for certain uses. They all work, but due to physical/gas laws they will behave differently, being optimal for torque or power.

 

My offering, whichis nearly ready - just finalising trumpet lengths and material - are really aimed at BHP having shorter runners, but being of better quality and similar price to the Bogg nosh. I'm proposing under £1500 for ECU, bodies, fresh injectors x 4, inlet runners, trumpets, air filter, fuel rail, TPS, FPR and custom loom.

 

I can't make many, but that's cracking value IMO and will produce respectable results. Body package can be reduced to not include ECU.

 

So in short buy something sturdy and the best you can afford. And as WP says, some preparatory works like lowering the rad may need to be done.

[harryskid 193]

Colin's work is excellent and i'am very pleased to have a set of his on my rally car which is under going major work. Having seen his works i have every confidence in his product. Hes a great guy to deal with and when he says he will sell you some thing he keeps his word and if he says hes got it for sale he has unlike some others! I'am sure Dr Sarty's set up will also be a good product too and wish him good luck with his venture.

[Mad Scientist 106]

One more for colins set up. I bought a set of gsxr1000 bodies from eBay for £80. Dr Sarty took them down for me, Colin did the work in a couple of weeks. For the cost of the bodies, plus about £400 (iirc) you get a great setup. It is complete with 2 fuel rails, tps, throttle cam etc. Plus, it can be used with 2 sets of injectors. That's a whole chunk cheaper than anything of the shelf. I had mine final mapped today. The result is very impressive, tons of torque and still very tractable.

[Peetypug 5]

he doesnt do them for 8vs either

[welshpug 1,657]

he doesnt do them for 8vs either

 

 

have you asked?

 

he certainly does for the 8v TU

[Peetypug 5]

yeah, messaged him a couple of months ago and he said he didnt do them for it

[Sandy 191]

I work with Jenveys on a daily basis. They are for the main part well made and acceptable quality, but they are not in the same league as the Keihin GSXR bodies for manufacturing quality I'm afraid! The challenge, doing what Colin and I have done with the Keihins, is to make them suitable and as has been said, we've worked out a number of ways of making that work.

 

Besides quality, the other issue is aftermarket throttle bodies kits (eg Jenvey, ATP, TWM etc). They are almost just designed to fit the head and the rough engine bay space available. They are a long way from optimum designs in most cases, having not actually being developed to their full potential. I've seen massive improvements (as much as 25-40bhp through the mid range) on them from simple tract, trumpet changes and big improvements in driveability from the same and linkage, TB size and injector position changes. It's only natural to assume that TB manufacturers would be able to tell you all you need to know about making the right choices, but they aren't tuning and developing them! Getting it right makes such a massive difference to the end result and it's difficult to appreciate that unless you've seen it many times.

[James_m 0]

I had mine final mapped today. The result is very impressive, tons of torque and still very tractable.

Any figures?

[Peetypug 5]

Any figures?

 

he is shaped like the marshmallow man, but i dont think thats the figure your after

[locosaki 0]

Thanks of the input.

 

So the custom set up seems to be favorite, That makes more sense to me than going for a Jenvey set up that basically suits any car with the correct manifold and I like the idea of keeping a good inlet tract.

 

I noticed on here someone selling a Lumenition fuel and ignition ecu for a good price this coupled with a custom body set up to me sounds good !!

 

Anyone know much about the Lumenition 400 series ??

[Baz 421]

Yes, lots as i have one. But that one is a good price for a reason.

[craig_007 1]

Yep I'm also interested in this topic as stated earlier.

 

What was wrong with the other lumenition ecu ?

 

I also inquired about this.

Edited November 27, 2010 by craig_007

[locosaki 0]

Baz,

 

What can you tell me about the Lumenition is it still good in terms of what are available today ?

[Mad Scientist 106]

Don't just buy an ecu because it's there. Spec your engine setup, then choose your mapper, then ask them which ecu they prefer to use. It will make a big difference.

[Sandy 191]

Any figures?

 

No. Tyre-rollers grip wasn't great, so I wouldn't rely on what it was reading. His comment counts for more.

[CaptainK 11]

Another one here for the Colin Satchell bodies on my 205 GTi6. Superb stuff, great sound and the quality of the setup is very good. As said above, the manifold is certainly not a "bodged and chopped" inlet manifold, but a custom made high quality bit of kit with custom made trumpets and so forth as well. I find the performance is very good and I'm more than happy with the way it drives - 186bhp fly / 154bhp wheels on Eurospec 2000's rollers, can't remember torque but it was north of 150lbs/ft and for daily driving in the cold it returns around 28-29mpg which is what it was when mine was a standard GTi6 and before that as a standard 1.9 8v.

 

Fitting was very easy as well - I just parked it at Sandy's and came back a couple of days later and it was all done

[Jrod 7]

I think my recent results speak volumes for Colin and Sandys work.

 

197bhp and 158lbft from a 1.9 Mi16 with just mild cams.