How Hard Can It Be?

[Guest Al D]

I have been enrolled for a while and have used this site to solve a variety of problems on my 205 but have never actually posted! Thank you to all of you that have provided such a wealth of information!

 

Well today, I decided to finally get around to doing a couple of jobs on my car - changing a lower wishbone front bush and replacing my 50mm lowering spings with standard springs (bought the car with the 'slammed' look and am steadily turning back to standard).

 

How hard can it be?

 

- Compressed front springs and removed front struts without any real trouble.

 

- The shot front wishbone bush then took 2 hours to remove! My makeshift 'puller' just ripped the centre out of the damaged bush and I the had to cut the remaining metal case out using a jigsaw, a blowtorch, a punch and a hammer!

 

- During this process the offside driveshaft boot pullled off and the driveshaft came out of the gearbox hub - grease everywhere.

 

- Front bush bolt was badly worn do went to local dealer to get a replacement. None in stock so had to order it.

 

- Not to worry. Set about refitting the new bush ... (without the use of a press or vice). 2 hours later I had managed to get it almost all the way in using washers, bolts, and a variety of metal swash plates.

 

- Set about removing the strut from the other side and as I lowered the hub off the bottom of the shock, the driveshaft came out of the gearbox! What seemed like a litre of transmission oil dumped itself all over the garage floor before I managed to get the driveshaft to go back in!!!

 

Called it a day there, but am already looking forward to a full day putting the front suspension back together tomorrow - and that's before I start on the rear torsion bars!!!

 

Anyway, other than refilling the transmission oil, is there anything else I need to check with respect to my front driveshafts? For future reference, why did they 'pop out' and what should I have done to prevent this?

 

Thanks in anticipation!

Edited November 19, 2010 by Al D

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

ah, the classic driveway covered in gearbox oil situation, no matter how many times i do it i'll never learn!

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

stinky gearbox oil too

 

done this so many times now i have lost count. still perfected the art of removing/replacing and shafts in under half hour now though.

 

they pop out quite easily mate dont worry. while you have them off pull the inner boot off and check all the needle bearings on the joint are still in place.i would also change the gearbox/shaft seals too (only a few quid).

 

and be prepared for the nighmare of stripping a rear beam

[Wes 86 1 Cars]

you should of just replaced the whole wishbone, saves pissing about with trying to change bushes.

[Guest Al D]

you should of just replaced the whole wishbone, saves pissing about with trying to change bushes.

 

Wise words. I had bought 4 bushes with view to changing them all but in the end just changed the damaged one and quit while I was ahead!

[Stevo309 0]

you should of just replaced the whole wishbone, saves pissing about with trying to change bushes.

 

It's not that bad. I'm no mechanical expert but following Tom Fenton's guide on here I attempted it for the first time recently. Managed to change both bushes in both sides in a couple of hours.

 

Drill the centre rubber out with a hole saw.

Cut through the outer sleeve with a hacksaw

Punch the sleeve out

I pressed the new ones in using a vice

 

If your outer bushes are ok this job will save you quite a few quid

[McDude 33]

If your outer bushes are ok this job will save you quite a few quid

 

Motaquip bones are about £30-40 and are the genuine article - I don't remember bushes from Pug being much cheaper. Plus you get a new balljoint which is likely to be worn anyway.

 

 

 

Al D - when you tighten up the bolts holding the wishbone, they are supposed to be loaded ie weight on the wheels. You probably knew this already, but if not, just leave the last bit of torqueing up til the car is back on its wheels.

[Guest Al D]

OK, so front end now sorted, re-assembled (barring final 'on wheels' re-torque) and I have started on the rear. But it just gets better an better ...

 

Initial stages all fine. The beam has obviously been re-built at some point so most bolts were copper-slipped and came apart relatively easily.

 

The same was true of the first torsion bar too. Came out without too much fuss using an over-sized socket, a few washers and an M8 x 50 bolt.

 

However, (you know where we are going here) - the other bar just will not move! Trying the same method but have actually almost rounded the heads of a couple of M8 bolts trying. I'm frightened that I may even snap a bolt in the end of the bar and then be really stuffed!

 

I've tried loads of penetrating oil, raising and lowering the trailing arm with a jack, but the bar just will not go anywhere.

 

The only stage of the well documented process that I haven'y done, is removing the lower shock bolts (they are properly rusted and don't want to move either) but I can't really see how that would make removal of the TB any different.

 

Does anyone have any great tried and tested solutions? I need to go to work tomorrow and my car now has a standard height front, one torsion bar and no back wheels ...

 

HELP!

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

the only real easy way is the remove the arm and knock the bar out that way.

 

but if you want the car for tomorrow and are not planning on rebuilding it then this is not the ideal solution as it means removing the roll bar ends/end and brake lines etc. and even then the arms dont want to come off sometimes.

 

you could just keep tying with the bolt method or a slide hammer if you have one? and keep you're fingers crossed

[welshpug 1,645]

removing the lower damper bolts (or the top ones) will allow the trailing arm to droop further so that there is no tension held on the torsion bars, this is often enough to prevent a partially seizes torsion bar to come out.

 

I'm guessing this is the Right hand end of the torsion bar you are struggling with?

 

Some heat applied will do the trick, but due to its proximity to the fuel filler pipe and fuel tank I would not do so when fitted to the vehicle!

 

Tom Fenton did make a puller for torsion bars (not sure if he still does) which will remove most torsion bars excepting the most stubborn ones.

[Guest Al D]

Ok. Borrowed a slide hammer from my local garage - absolute star of a bloke who even welded an M8 bolt onto the end of it for me.

 

Set about withdrawing the stuck torsion bar and after several hits noticed that the bar was not moving but the force of the slide hammer was pulling the entire trailing arm off its hub!!!!! (meaning that the torsion bar is now free at the left hand end but still firmly stuck in at the right hand trailing arm)

 

Is this normal/possible for this to happen or should the trailing arm be secure on its axle?

 

I have now well and truly exceeded my knowledge base and am working well outside of my comfort zone. Unfortunately, I can't even just drive the thing to Peugeot or Skip Brown and pay for them to sort it ...

 

I have now ceased work in case I am doing more damage than good. Any advice will be most welcome!

[welshpug 1,645]

there is nothing holding the trailing arm in the crossmember other than the torsion bars.

 

it is quite normal for the arm to come out as hardly any of the force you are exerting on it is acting on the corroded bit, and it simply pulling the arm out.

 

to proceed any further I would unbolt the brake caliper and disconnect the handbrake cable, and remove the trailing arm as-is from the beam, then you can apply more force or heat as necessary to free the torsion bar.

 

my usual approach is to remove the stud from the opposite end of the torsion bar, fit a short M8 sacrificial bolt, and swing away with my trusty Lump hammer, if you have access to some kind of heat then apply it to the trailing arm around the torsion bar, but not to the torsion bar itself.

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

I found a combination of the two approaches of pulling and hitting worked on mine. It has to be off the vehicle but i used a bolt and washers to pull on one end and a sacrificial bolt to hit on the other. Applytension on the pulling end by torquing up the bolt the whack the other end a few times being careful not to hit the splines, go back to the other end and take up the small amount of slack you'll now have and repeat. Took a while but got a bar that no other method alone would touch!

[Anthony 1,002]

Sometimes the torsion bars are so firmly siezed in place that you'll never free them off without a hydraulic press - I've seen well in excess of 10 tons on mine before the torsion bar eventually moved. The spline in the drivers side arm is usually the problem one, as it is more exposed to rain and salt spray off the tyres.

[Alastairh 47]

Agreed with ant. Personally, drop the beam if its being a real pain and you'll get more success.

 

Al

[Guest Al D]

Thanks for all of the help and advice.

 

Just bay way of an update, I spent another couple of hours trying to free the RH spline but to no avail. The M8 bolt on the end of the slide hammer even snapped in the end (and I enjoyed a great heart-sinking moment before finding that not only was the snapped end sticking out from the torsion bar, but it was also possible to unscrew it by hand! My first genuine moment of luck!) ...

 

Well I was working on my Pug with it on axle stands in my double garage next to another car which is currently not moveable. So, despite the invaluable advice from Welshpug and others, there was not enough space to withdraw the torsion bar (attached to trailing arm) completely. So, as feeble as it may seem, I've now given up and accepted defeat.

 

My 205 has just been collected (using a demountable bed truck) by a local garage who intends to remove the trailing arm and use a combination of both heat and a press to free the torsion bar. To say that I am disappointed in my attempt to get the job done is an understatement but at least I tried ... I did succeed in changing a front bush, changing the front coils and partly disassembling my rear beam but I'll have to consign the overall task to my list of heroic failures The only irritating thing is that I could have just driven it to them last Weds and asked them to do the entire job for less than it will cost me to get it put right (including car collection etc). Oh well ... we live and learn!

 

Messages of condolence and/or general abuse for giving in too easily will be equally welcomed ...

[Wurzel 16]

It's all a learning experience and if you had the room to remove the trailing arm and bar attached, I reckon you'd have achieved it. The trusty lump hammer to knock the bar through does generally work, although not always deemed the most mechanically sympathetic way of doing it. With rear beams though, you just shouldn't be shy with hitting it. Easy to say I know but they are pretty tough.

 

Still, getting fixed now and besides you're admitting defeat, I still reckon you've learnt a massive amount, even if it's not to star a job where you might need a bit of space to remove stuff

[jord294 89]

such a shame i've only just read this thread, as beams are my speciality

 

i would have been glad to come down and help, and i'd of been a hell of a lot cheaper than any garage

[Edp 67 3 Cars]

Been there done that with the driveshafts! why does gearbox oil have to stink so bad? makes me feel sick.

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

Been there done that with the driveshafts! why does gearbox oil have to stink so bad? makes me feel sick.

 

Just as a note of support. Jord really does know his stuff and produces excellent refurb beams and other parts, just in case you need it and it comes to that!!

[Guest Al D]

such a shame i've only just read this thread, as beams are my speciality

 

i would have been glad to come down and help, and i'd of been a hell of a lot cheaper than any garage

 

Jord - Thanks for the offer and, to be perfectly honest, it may still come your way for a proper rebuild (if you are able to fit it in) when the local chap realises what he is taking on! As you have noticed, I'm not too far from you here in Shropshire and my ageing Dad actually likes in Oakenholt on the edge of Flint so pass your way reasonably often ...

 

Is it OK to PM you for advice once I have had feedback from the garage?

 

Al

[Guest Al D]

... that should say my Dad lives in Oakenholt ... not likes in Oakenholt ...

 

Why has the edit option disappeared?

[SurGie 54]

Because you only have an hour to edit it then after the hour has passed you cant.

[Guest Al D]

Thank you!

[jord294 89]

feel free to pm

 

will be glad to help