306 Hdi Non Starting...

[welshpug 1,657]

ask at work? they should know

[All Praise The GTI 3]

i know abit about 306s and 205s but nothing about hdis really. the guys at work (nissan) arent clued up on them either.

hooked a battery up to the lift pump and it was whining away but i suppose it could be broken internally or something.

as ive already said it just died overnight and it will start if spray down inlet so somethings stopping the fuel somewhere i think

really stuck now

[Anthony 1,003]

As I said earlier in the thread - does the rev counter flutter slightly when cranking over?

[All Praise The GTI 3]

sorry anthony thought i had replied. yes it does flutter just a little as soon as it starts turning over

[Anthony 1,003]

Suggests that the ECU is working to some degree, has power, and the crank sensor is working correctly then.

[hcmini1989 16]

Sounds like its not building enough pressure to start it via HP pump.As stated when you unplug pressure sensor the ecu goes to a set figure so if it was the sensor it should go if unplugged.

 

Give the egr a clean or just take it out then try starting it. Ive had a saab diesel in work basicly a vectra diesel and that wouldnt start crank over etc i took the egr out and it burst into life .I still cant figure out how the egr would stop it from starting but it did.

 

My dads citroen is in a simlar predicament to yours.Its a 110 hdi and it takes ages to fire up i mean like 2 mins cranking over and cuts out every 20 miles or so .Now im putting this down to the low pressure pump its a new one a s*ite ecp one so id advise against getting one from them ,But i can here it pumping but doesnt mean its working properly .Go to a scrappy and grab a secondhand genuine one

 

One more thing is has the timing jumped ?.

 

And last but not least does it have enough diesel in it?

Edited November 16, 2010 by hcmini1989

[Anthony 1,003]

Now im putting this down to the low pressure pump its a new one a s*ite ecp one so id advise against getting one from them ,But i can here it pumping but doesnt mean its working properly .Go to a scrappy and grab a secondhand genuine one

I'd disagree with that.

 

The 306 HDi lift-pump that I got from ECP was a genuine one IIRC and works absolutely fine, and has done for 20k+ miles now.

 

Given their reputation for failing, I'd certainly not trust a random one from the scrappy, especially when you remember that when they fail they have a habit of leaving bits of swarf in the fuel lines and filter when they fail.

[hcmini1989 16]

I'd disagree with that.

 

The 306 HDi lift-pump that I got from ECP was a genuine one IIRC and works absolutely fine, and has done for 20k+ miles now.

 

Given their reputation for failing, I'd certainly not trust a random one from the scrappy, especially when you remember that when they fail they have a habit of leaving bits of swarf in the fuel lines and filter when they fail.

Well im talking from my own expereince with it so i might have got a bad pump ,Not on a 306 but an xantia 110 hdi .Should be the same the one i got from Ecp was £130 and the fuel line fittings push on and click jobbys were crap the return line wont seat on the barb properly .Then it doesnt seem like its building enough pressure even when first fitted it the car was cranking for ages before firing up .Could be another problem there aswell but it was great with the O.E pump .

 

Ive just got one from a scrappy from a running car checked before i took it out.So theres no reason for it to have swarf etc in it ,

Edited November 16, 2010 by hcmini1989

[All Praise The GTI 3]

put £25 diesel in it two days before it died,and id done about 35 miles in it. and yes im sure i put diesel in!

belt was done this time lastyear by carl chambers, done about 15k and been fine

as said never even had the slightest problem in the past so strange drove home turned it off then doesnt start the next day!

[hcmini1989 16]

put £25 diesel in it two days before it died,and id done about 35 miles in it. and yes im sure i put diesel in!

belt was done this time lastyear by carl chambers, done about 15k and been fine

as said never even had the slightest problem in the past so strange drove home turned it off then doesnt start the next day!

 

Might be worth calling in an expert mate.This is a long shot i know but ask your local taxi rank were you could jockey a cab from ,Then ring them up or go down and see what parts they have on the shelf and what they would let you borrow from them to fualt find yours,

 

The only reason i say that about the taxi place is because i used to work in a place that jockeys them out and we had loads of hdis and loads of spares taken from dead ones so when we had a problem we could usually swap and change bits.

 

 

Failing that ring around a few local deisel specialist and see what they charge to come out and diagnose it for you.The hdi`s arent really that bad compared to some modern diesels in fact there fairly basic .

 

If i were to put my money on anything it would be the lift pump.The high pressure ones usually give some signs of going such as loss of power etc ,Where as the ones in the tank usually just give up or go weak

[All Praise The GTI 3]

sorry, jockeys and cabs?? confused me there?? jockeys ride horses...lol

[hcmini1989 16]

If you rent/hire a cab/taxi and use it to taxi people round in .Its called jockeying an cab .So if you go to a place where they rent taxi`s out chances are theyll have loads of spares from old taxis .Wich round where i live happens to be mostly 406s

[All Praise The GTI 3]

o right lol. dont know of anywhere like that round here

[hman205 1]

worth a shot as its free

 

mate had similar with his 306 HDI was working fine then just stopped turned out the earth lead to the block was knackered the bloke that came to buy it after he had given up tring to fix it bought with him a jump lead and connected it between the block and battery earth and fired it up within 5mins and his mate drove it away much to the dismay of my friend evidently the bloke said it was really common on them.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

A decent diagnostic man will be able to plug in and tell you straight away if the lift pump isn't making enough pressure. The guy I use locally now and again charges me £30.

[Atari Boy 11]

Paul Cales is a specialist Peugeot mechanic and based in Bury, his number is 07785 598680, he might be able to help.

If you need a tow give me a bell.

[All Praise The GTI 3]

thanks for the comments guys.

and yes i might try paul id lost his number,wasnt sure if he was stil up near the golf club. thanks jonnie

got tomorrow off to prep the 205 for snetty on sat so will have another look over it in the morning

[Carl Chambers 7 2 Cars]

Just bought myself a Peugeot Planet diag if you can get it here I can take a look.

 

HDis are normally pretty good, its prob just a sensor gone down or something simple, but dont bother trying to tow start it if it wont go then no matter how far you tow it its still never going to go!

[All Praise The GTI 3]

thanks carl might take you up on that offer although your a long way to tow to!!

[alync406 4]

Just bought myself a Peugeot Planet diag if you can get it here I can take a look.

 

HDis are normally pretty good, its prob just a sensor gone down or something simple, but dont bother trying to tow start it if it wont go then no matter how far you tow it its still never going to go!

 

You would think that they would'nt go on a tow but sometimes they will when they are not building up enough high pressure. It is worth a go instead of just putting a new high pressure pump on it if that was the problem. Would really want to get the car on a computer and see whats happing, ie. if it is building up enough high pressure and that.

I got a Peugeot Planet diag a while back myself, they are a good job, shows up alot more than the Snapon scanner that we have which is'nt that much use really.

[Carl Chambers 7 2 Cars]

You would think that they would'nt go on a tow but sometimes they will when they are not building up enough high pressure. It is worth a go instead of just putting a new high pressure pump on it if that was the problem. Would really want to get the car on a computer and see whats happing, ie. if it is building up enough high pressure and that.

I got a Peugeot Planet diag a while back myself, they are a good job, shows up alot more than the Snapon scanner that we have which is'nt that much use really.

 

I have never seem one start from towing but have seen a lot of damage done trying to tow start something that wont go, its bodgy way of doing it!

 

As you say it will show up on a computer if it had low pressure as there is a sensor for that, and if that sensor doesnt get enough pressure no amount of towing will start it!

[All Praise The GTI 3]

well just broke a palstic fuel line so im screwed untill can replace that!

luckily its only small and easy to change i hope. off side off filter to a small black box above rail.

cleaned up a few sensors including one near oil filler cap. white one think its cam sensor. after some brake cleaner and wd40 the rev counter moves and flutters much more than it did before. and took pipes off top fule filter and ignition on it spurts out so im sure lift pump ok. was trying undo pipe from hp pump to rail to check that and thats when i broke the fuel pipe. luckily was that plastic one for a moment thought i sheared off the rail one!

[thug pug 7 1 Cars]

Someone posted that if your fuel rail pressure sensor does not work the ECU goes to a default and will still start. This is wrong if the ECU does not see a correct reading it will not start. The ECU needs to see a min of around 180 bar and if the sensor is short or open circuit it will not allow the high pressure pump to create a pressure as it then does not know system high pressure which can cause holes in pistons if too high.

The main faults you find in 306 HDI's are 1/ Low pressure pump as already said. 2/ The engine loom that runs from the ECU round the battery box above the gearbox rubs against the gearbox and shorts out some of the sensor wires causing non start.

 

Rab E.

Edited November 19, 2010 by thug pug

[All Praise The GTI 3]

Quote: The main faults you find in 306 HDI's are 1/ Low pressure pump as already said. 2/ The engine loom that runs from the ECU round the battery box above the gearbox rubs against the gearbox and shorts out some of the sensor wires causing non start.

 

thanks will check the loom on sunday. got a trackday at snetty tomorrow

[All Praise The GTI 3]

the helpful rac man machine says:

p1517-immobilerser code function

p1080-unknown

p0396-unknown- possibly cylinder pressure sensor

p2569-direct ozone reduction catalyst temp sensor low (egr?)

 

anyway will try again tomorrow to get it over to C.C to check it over with his new toy