Car Buying/selling Etiquette

[lfallgti 12]

Has any body else noticed the increasing trend whereby selling a car turns more from the fine art of haggling and wit and into of a barrage of "txt msgs"

 

For instance, i have a car for sale through the usual channels, and maybe it's the nature of the vehicle being sold, to be associated with young, loutish, illiterate types, but surely people don't all ignore conversation and opt instead to "txt" an offer without even seeing the car.

 

What happened to the days when people would ring and arrange a viewing time and come and kick tyres and go through the car with a fine tooth comb then reel off a list of faults and manage to come to some agreement on price after a slight reduction of the initial asking amount. (which incidentally, would generally take into account the minor faults aforementioned anyway).

 

And whoever came up with the idea of listing the bad points of the car??? That's the whole point of viewing it so you find them yourself. I don't see why anyone would advertise a car as having "bad points"

 

I say all this, as i truly believe the etiquette of car dealing is being lost. How many more times am i going to have my phone beep only to receive another offer for "800 dats da hihgest i can go." An offer that falls woefully short of my asking price. Do people not appreciate that an asking price is not to try and rip them off but is generally a fair reflection of the cars condition? And if they can't be bothered to have a look around the car then why not keep the silly offers to themselves.

 

I've been thinking about this alot and come to the conclusion that Ebay is to blame. The idea of buying a car without the option of seeing it, driving it or even haggling on it seems ludicrous to me. Now, admittedly my car is for sale through Ebay but i have specified clearly that i would much rather have someone come and tyre kick and see what i'm selling up close than have to deal with idiots offering me an inadequate amount then making out they're doing me a favour by stretching to an extra 50. I find it insulting even that people would offer an amount considerably lower after judging the car on merely a few photo's.

 

The whole concept of buying a vehicle at a fixed price, miles away,without seeing it, to me, reduces it to nothing more than DVD status... Just something that is bought as advertised. But Vehicles to many (or is that few) are so much more than that.

 

Anyway, concluding what has turned into a rant, not just about the lacklustre efforts by people wanting a new car but, i suspect, the way we as a society are heading, with lack of verbal communication and intellect only manifesting itself in "txt msgs", but wouldn't every one prefer the old way of car dealing? When buyer and seller met with a firm handshake and bargained hard against each other. I long for someone to turn up at my house and ask when my water pump was last changed, or my reason for selling. Alas, i fear i may have to learn "txt spk"

 

 

 

Rant over.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

After having the same thing in the past, especially when selling something that will appeal to rude boy chavs, I now always make a point of mentioning in my advert that any text messages will be ignored, and if any do come through, I ignore them.

 

Perhaps I miss out on a potential buyer, but as you say, if they cannot be arsed to come and view it, or even call me to ask some pertinent questions, I probably do not want to deal with them anyhow.

 

The other strange thing that you touch on is the belief from most buyers that you will accept a 25% knock down on your price, and then utter disbelief when you will not accept their fantastic offer. When selling something I price it at what I think is realistic and am prepared usually to move about £100, but that is about it.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Tom Fenton

[AJA_GTi 0]

I would never sell a car though ebay - ever

 

Pistonheads is to blame for part ex texts as well - despite asking for a diesel estate someone always offeres you a v6 lagoona with 250,000 miles on the clock and a 1.0 litre fiesta with a 'wikkid kit on thats jus bin lowerd'

 

It's the nature of the beast now I think. Times have changed since the tinterweb came along.

 

A possitive is that it has made the country very small for car buyers - you can find the car you want with the click of a few buttons without trawling magazines and newspapers.

[205007 12]

Are you talking about selling a 205 or cars in general?

 

I find that generally people with a lower intelligence are far easier to extract money out of than people who are clued up! so if i advertise a 205 and i get a chav round to look then generally they pay full price after a quick blat down the lanes!

 

If you are a hopeless romantic wanting someone to buy your car and cherish it like you did then its going to end up sat on your drive for a while isnt it? at the end of the day cars (especially ones in a 205 price bracket) are throw away items nowadays, like washing machines and microwaves and have a short lifespan

 

If your selling a car and someone has the money, your a mug to not to sell it because you dislike the person buying!

[Moby 0]

Totally agree with the fact of what really happened to that early Saturday morning call from a buyer interested in viewing the car, then getting underneath it to see, opening the boot to see damp. Now no one even checks the spare if it even had one let alone check if it's any good. Checking the driver door if it drops or passanger door to see how much the car's been used.People nowadays want a bargain price before they even see it nothing reflecting on the condition of the car, if the price suits they'll take it otherwise won't even bother looking at it or driving it.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

I think is realistic and am prepared usually to move about £100, but that is about it.

 

Obviously this is directly linked to the asking price, i.e £100 of a grand car but not £100 of a £500 car! Personally I would be more than happy to sell my car to someone who will cherish it and look after like I did for less money. If a chav like contacted me with some hard to read text language I wouldn't bother replying or want to sell the car to them.

 

I’ve never bought or sold a car of eBay, just PH and auto trader. I always phone them (maybe after a few emails) and now I'm a little older, even just down the scappers I enjoy the art of haggling, plus I think people welcome it and equally enjoy it.

 

Thankfully I’ve never had the pleasure of dealing with illiterate chav type!

 

Ali

[notamondayfan 44]

I always ask people to come and view the car before we talk about money. If someone has the cash ready and I can see it, Im more likely to accept a lower offer, than some promise from some email or text message.

 

Money talks, bull s*it walks.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Alas, i fear i may have to learn "txt spk"

 

Dats liv do innit bruv

 

 

If your selling a car and someone has the money, your a mug to not to sell it because you dislike the person buying!

 

Clearly the words of a hardened salesman I've cared about every car I've owned and sold. As an owner it's my perogative to care enough about it that I'd be picky about who I sell it to. I'd never be stupid enough to do my self out of the money if I was in desperate need, and would be stuck with the car otherwise, but if I know I can afford the luxury of choice, then I'll exploit it! I certainly wouldn't want to sell a 205 GTI - a car that I care enough about to have been a part of this forum for many years - to some brain dead element of the underclass, who probably makes their money by skimming benefits and selling knock off DVDs.

 

The other problem with this modern approach to buying/selling is that it's inevitable that if you accept an offer unseen, you just know that the little s*it is then going to turn up and decide something about the car is not to their satisfaction, and they'll kick up a stink. Or you hear from them a week later and they are complaining about something being wrong with the car, that they perhaps would have spotted if they'd bothered to inspect it prior to purchase.

Edited November 9, 2010 by GLPoomobile

[muddatrucker 125]

I've bought a car on ebay and from here before, didn't really check much before swapping cash but the amounts exchanged were so small as long as it moved legally I didn't mind

[Chris_Mi 6]

"And whoever came up with the idea of listing the bad points of the car??? That's the whole point of viewing it so you find them yourself. I don't see why anyone would advertise a car as having "bad points""

 

In purely legal terms, if you know that there are faults with the car, you have to disclose them if asked. If you do not, then you are open to a legal claim of misrepresentation. In terms of the courts this is a slightly grey area, and may be dependant on your amount of knowledge about mechanics. I would expect that the majority of members of a forum such as this, who enjoy, and are familiar with tinkering with their cars, are more open to a claim of having some degree of mechanical knowledge than some old dear that doesn't have a clue.

 

Therefore, listing the bad points negates this. I supose you could get around it (and hence the amount of ebay sellers that comment something similar) by stating something along the lines of sold as seen, or I am not a mechanic, and everything I know has been stated. Also, stating the bad points prevents the knobbers turning up and attempting to take the price to pieces by arguing the toss about something or other that they have found.

 

I'd rather not have the hassle, and that's why I'm honest whenever I sell an item. Listing the bad points is a good thing.

[Baz 421]

Yup, listing the bad points is just honesty and saves everyone time in the long run, those serious about buying the car will have researched the model and know what they're looking at and to a point, expect. If your bad points are very bad, then the price needs to reflect it, or it needs to be sorted before it's sold.

 

I always ask people to come and view the car before we talk about money. If someone has the cash ready and I can see it, Im more likely to accept a lower offer, than some promise from some email or text message.

 

Money talks, bull s*it walks.

 

Exactly, how can someone make you an offer for something they haven't seen!! I've always thought the same and tell people that make offers like this to simply come and see it and we'll go from there.

 

Unless in some circumstances where they live afar & they're happy with my description & details and will definitely buy the car if it's as described, i'll then ask for that in writing (email will do) and a substantial deposit before basically saying if the car is as described & expected you shall be buying at this figure... no deviation. I've done this a few times where buyers have come from so far away expecting to be driving the car home again, and have arrived on public transport etc. It can work, and buyers that go through this process are usually serious rather than tyre kicking messers.

[Veero 1]

Been trying to sell the A4 and the 205 for ages. Had loads of piss takingly low offers for the 205. In the end someone from Yorkshire who had never seen it has sent me a deposit without even seeing it in the flesh.

 

Lost count of the emails I've had asking "Is it still for sale?" for both cars which I reply "Yes" and never hear from again. Those are the most annoying apart from those who organise to turn up and never show, they do my nut in. I would, like the original poster, love for people to turn up and talk no end about either car, but as said above it seems like it's all online now. One kiddy turned up to look at the 205. I knew he wanted it, he knew he wanted it and would move heaven and earth to own it.

 

Was pending turning up the 3rd time with a large proportion of the value so he could test drive it (I was never going to let some boy racer tyre kicker test drive it, wreck it and bugger off) and his mum told him he couldn't have it as it was too powerful whether or not that's true of course I don't know. Putting "test drive with valid insurance only" seems to have put all the test pilots off. Whether or not that's put legitimate buyers off I don't know.

 

Anyway, not a peep from Autotrader on the A4 until it's due to finish tonight. Someone is supposedly coming round at 4 to view it today so fingers crossed that may go tonight. Had some stupid offers on Pistonheads, leading me to conclude that the vast majority of people on there are idiots and dreamers. "Do you want to swap your A4 plus money for my Vito van?" Do I f***ing what now?! Retards.

 

The good old days of genuinely kicking tyres I think are almost over. As agreed above, don't sort a price until you come to see it. One lad keeps asking will I take £x for the A4. No, damn well come and look at it THEN haggle. Grrr!

Edited November 9, 2010 by Veero

[Bogsye 22]

When I sold my Boxster I got this:

 

Inbox: Would u take 8.5k 4 your boxter

 

Outbox: I think you've mistaken me for Oxfam. They specialise in charity.

 

Never heard anything back. Oddly enough.

 

Even more bizzare was the guy who bought it. Came, looked at, and decided he wanted it. I had to suggest a test drive, which he didn't want. I then suggested i could start it and he ould hear the enginer running. Apparently that was "a good idea".

 

The whole thing was quite fishy. Infact, to the point that I only knocked £250 off as I wanted him to walk away. He didn't.

 

A different guy appeared with the cash the following day. I insisted on meeting him at my bank, which he did. Unsurpisingly the cash came up a grand short, which amazingly he found in another pocket. Nice try... <growl>

 

Must admit though, when the exhaust went into self destruct 4 weeks later and they complained, I didn't offer much sympathy. I was cheeky enough to offer them a spare pair of headlanmps for it at 50 quid. Mind you for two cats and a full system he probably was looking down the barrel of a couple of grand out an OPC.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

I once had one like that, selling a 405 Mi16x4 of all things. Guy drove about 50 miles to look at it, bent my ear for about an hour and a half until I was losing the will to live, then almost out of the blue we agreed a price and he stuck a £100 deposit on it.

 

Arranged to come and get it a day or two later with his mate to bring him etc. On the morning he was due I gave the car a good wash and leather off, and went and put £10 petrol in it to turn the fuel light off.

 

He turned up, we go in the house to do the paperwork and exchange the cash, all of a sudden he announces that he could not get all the money out of the bank and is £200 short. I told him that in that case he had made a 50 mile trip for nothing and to piss off. All of a sudden his mate miraculously happened to have £200 in his wallet to loan him. I felt like telling them to stick it up their arse but in reality I needed the money.

 

However much like you, when he rang up after 2 months complaining that the heater control motor had packed in, he got a short sharp f off!

[lfallgti 12]

I feel i may need to clear this bad points issue up here.

 

Regarding the 'not mentioning the bad points' Firstly i don't mean that to be dis-honest, but to me it is this reason why people should come and view the car. Since when did the old autotrader ads, along the lines of

 

Ford Escort, 1.8td

Blue, 54,000 miles

a/c, e/w, c/l, PAS

12 months t+t

good runner

Bargain

 

ever mention the bad points. The buyer then comes, has a poke around the car and makes an offer or if they see it's not what they expected, they make up an excuse about having to see a few more and walk away.

 

And at what point do the bad points end. my 205 for sale is never going to be mint but is tidy and genuine so naturally it will have some 'bad points' compared to a car being sold for double the price , but the price reflects this and if the buyer is inqusitive when looking around the car they'll get straight answers.

 

Also if it's a non-runner, or needs extensive or expensive work,for instance, then i'd state that and price it accordingly. Personally, i think an advert is designed to sell something and not highlight the negatives.

 

Another point i should mention, If i'm offered laughably less than my asking price via a text message, then sorry i won't be selling the car to that person on principle, even if i was offered full money in the end. I'd rather give the genuine buyers the oppurtunity, the ones that are willing to ring and talk over the phone. It seems that people don't have a price range as such now. What happened to people excluding the lower end of the market in order to find the car they wanted, rather than make a laughable offer for a car they just want cheap.

Edited November 9, 2010 by lfallgti

[muddatrucker 125]

I feel i may need to clear this bad points issue up here.

 

Regarding the 'not mentioning the bad points' Firstly i don't mean that to be dis-honest, but to me it is this reason why people should come and view the car. Since when did the old autotrader ads, along the lines of

 

Ford Escort, 1.8td

Blue, 54,000 miles

a/c, e/w, c/l, PAS

12 months t+t

good runner

Bargain

 

ever mention the bad points. The buyer then comes, has a poke around the car and makes an offer or if they see it's not what they expected, they make up an excuse about having to see a few more and walk away.

 

And at what point do the bad points end. my 205 for sale is never going to be mint but is tidy and genuine so naturally it will have some 'bad points' compared to a car being sold for double the price , but the price reflects this and if the buyer is inqusitive when looking around the car they'll get straight answers.

 

Also if it's a non-runner, or needs extensive or expensive work,for instance, then i'd state that and price it accordingly. Personally, i think an advert is designed to sell something and not highlight the negatives.

Autotrader was a magazine, space was limited, we're in the information age, if its online and people are far away, good/bad points are essential.

[lfallgti 12]

Autotrader was a magazine, space was limited, we're in the information age, if its online and people are far away, good/bad points are essential.

 

 

But we're no further away now. That's my point, i won't hide anything if asked.

[notamondayfan 44]

And what happens if you list all the bad points, but you dont notice something or forget something that a prospective buy does notice, does that make you a bad / untrustworthy seller?!

Im not saying hide faults, or mislead people, but if a car has an MOT, and is road worthy, then why should you point out the bad points?

[Blish10 0]

I bought a graphite 1.9 off ebay in the summer. Bought it blind, got it delivered, stupid thing to do but didn't have a car, wanted another 205, it was cheap.

First sunny weekend, had a look around it, rusty pile of s**t. MOT failed on about 13 things and I spent more money getting it all working.

£400 (plus MOT stuff) poorly spent.

 

Recently, a friend told me his old bosses brothers friends cousins etc etc had a mint white one for sale. Arranged a viewing, took all the money with me, arrived early to see the guy polishing one of the tidyest 22 year old cars I've seen. Had a thorough look around, told him I'd need to sleep on it. He went inside, I had another little look then knocked on his door with the £500 in my hand and a big grin on my face.

£500 very well spent.

 

I think CAR FOR SALE 01234 567890 (home number) should be the way to do adverts

[Anthony 1,003]

Im not saying hide faults, or mislead people, but if a car has an MOT, and is road worthy, then why should you point out the bad points?

So as not to waste your and the potential buyers time.

 

I'm far more likely to go and look at a car if the faults etc are all listed and explained in advance than I am if someone hasn't listed anything and is cagey when asked with answers like "come down and have a look and see what you think" - I've little interest in driving 50 miles to look at a car only to find obvious faults that immediately put me off, and equally, if I'm selling a car then I've little interest in standing around for hours while people look at a car only for it not to be what they've wanted.

 

Indeed, I'm pretty sure that of the six 205's I've sold, not a single one of them has been test driven by the buyer (four of them people on here, one a family member of someone on here, and one a friend of mine) which has always stuck me as strange. However, well in advance of them coming to look at the car I've always described them honestly and very much "warts and all" and hence people have turned up knowing what they're buying, to the point that in a couple of instances they've given me the money without so much as looking at the car!

 

To the best of my knowledge, 5 of those 6 cars are still owned by the people that I sold them to

 

I haven't bought a car that's been advertised in Autotrader, the newspaper or similar in many, many years now, as the woeful lack of information and inevitably rubbish picture puts me right off - yes I can phone the seller to get more information, but in my experience more often than not I've been sorely disappointed. All the cars I've bought have been from forum members, Pistonheads or eBay, where there's (usually) plenty of detail, pictures, and some ability to look back at the cars/sellers history. Generally rarely buy from traders either, as often seeing the owner of the car tells you as much about it as the car itself - judge and stereotype I might, but my gut instinct rarely lets me down.

[MrG 3]

I agree that car buying/selling has changed an awful lot, and I reckon its down to the ebay mentality, all want a lot for little.

However when I sold my Alfa 147GTA I had not a sniff on the first autotrader ad, then tried ebay and got the usual replies, then I left it, fresh service etc and a new ad on autotrader and out of the blue a chap from Scotland rings up and wants to view. So it was organised, he arrived when he said he would, drove it, went through the paperwork, result was a car sold. Deposit left and I tucked my beloved GTA back into the garage

When he collected, he flew into Stansted, I collected him (I was working there at the time) drove him to the bank and he paid me cash that was paid direct into the account, he drove off a happy man.

 

Similar thing to when I sold the BMW. Ebay ad, guy rings me up, asks what the reserve is, I told him what I wanted, and he says OK can I take it off ebay and he'll get it collected the following night. I said I would however I'd only remove once its been collected. Following day a guy arrives, cash in hand, full money and drives off!

 

So it can happen OK although texting is a pain, I've seen many ads stating no texts, phone calls only.

[muddatrucker 125]

But we're no further away now. That's my point, i won't hide anything if asked.

Space is no longer limited, if it saves someone the trip then you may aswell tell them.

 

I'm more likely to travel knowing of what to expect, I picked up my 205 from Nottingham knowing its faults, if I turned up and found them I'd of been pissed off.

[gtmotorsport 0]

I had it earlier in the year when I sold my Yamaha R1, which was the best available at the time.

 

Why to some bother with making a low offer, when you state what the dealers is offering you. I wouldn't waste my time doing a thing.

 

The main reason I am posting replying is that I had one idiot who was 21 and just passed his test and wanted to come and have a test ride. He got told to get insurance and turn up with the full asking price in cash or forget it. But honestly that is just stupid, even if he could get insurance he is asking for trouble.

[Veero 1]

Actually I remember now selling my old 1.6. It was tidy but the price reflected it wasn't a minter. I didn't hide anything and would have happily answered any questions. Couple turned up at the house, I was confused no car was in sight, they'd got a lift and the guy was on his way back to Brighton. Chappy comes in a looks over the paperwork. Missus (who the car as for) came and had a look at the car. I started it up. She nodded. Did she want to look under the bonnet or underneathy? No. Test drive? Yes.

 

Quick rag (cringingly from cold!) 1/2 mile up the 40 limit road and back. I'll take it. Sold. Unbelievable really.

[TT205 42]

Funnily enough I have never let a punter test drive my pride an joy

 

I'll drive them around as much as they want - fast, slow whatever. Always at the back of my mind, what if they were to bin it!

 

Am I wrong to do this?

 

What proof of insurance can they provide? - surely they would only have third party cover? - so they smash my car into another car - the other car is covered and mine isn't?