Suspension Suggestions?

[johnhenry 20]

Good Morning

 

Ive been trying to look into upgrading the suspension of my gti for a few weeks, but generally feel abit confused. And what with it being known for its good suspension in the first place, whats the best way to move it forward without forking out a small fortune.

Budget: about £500

Fast road setup

 

ive been recommended bilstien as the best stuff, but im not sure for what i want, as in i just want to have a good setup, nothing fancy, i dont want to finely adjust everything, i would just like a good general setup.

 

Replacing stuff like (below) would seem logical as if im upgrading the suspension then i should upgrade the stuff holding it on/to do with it

GrpN Front Strut Top Rubbers

GrpN Rear Beam Mount Kit

better ARBs: would i be right in thinking 309gti's are an accepted better choice?

 

Any help welcome, and anyone who knows of any decent deals/companies/people who know more, please post, open to all ideas

Cheers John

[welshpug 1,645]

at £500 you could either go for a Bilstein or Koni or similar uprated damper, or go for Peugeot Original, either direction afaik will allow for some spare change to replace the top mount rubbers and bearings, wishbone bushes and beam bushes.

 

 

firstly before all that though, is the beam a known quantity?

[Tom Fenton 1,536]

I recently did some work on a 205 GTI 1.9 for a guy off here, he wanted the suspension freshening up and upgrading a bit for road use.

We fitted a pair of Eibach front springs with Bilstein B4 dampers, and then at the rear a rebuilt beam with a pair of brand new genuine Peugeot 306 GTI6 rear dampers.

 

With the tracking reset and all bushes etc checked and replaced as needed the end result was a really nice car to drive, nicely weighted without being too crashy, great steering feedback.

 

I was very impressed and would fit the same again with no hesitation at all.

[swordfish210 20]

With £500 you should be able to afford some decent stuff, my reccomendations would be:

 

Front Dampers: Bilstein OE Blacks, i've used them before and they're pretty good. You can get them from Euro Car Parts or GSF.

 

Springs: Eibach lowering springs. If you want the car to handle well you'd be foolish to use anything other than Eibach springs.

 

BBM Grp N Top Mount rubbers, ride quality will suffer as a result but the turn in will definely improve.

 

ARB, leave the standard one on there, it will work best with this setup.

 

Rear Beam, With your budget you may be able to strech to a rebuilt beam (unless yours is in a known good condtion) which will help the cars performance in the bends no end. Grp N Rubbers are good but personally i would go with the Solid Grp A ones.

 

If you have some money left over then i would get a decent steering rack, Xsara VTS racks seem very popular, this will complement the stiffer bushes and springs in the front end.

 

You can get most of this stuff from Miles at PugRacing and Stew at Baker Bushes and Mountings (BBM)

[welshpug 1,645]

My car is pretty close to what Tom described, just different springs

 

I got the front Bilsteins from euro car parts, wishbone bushes from Motaquip, rebuilt beam with all original bushes and bearings, and original 5206 K6 Peugeot rear dampers (found on but not exclusively limited to the 306 gti6, can be found on 1.4 5 door models too)

Edited November 8, 2010 by welshpug

[swordfish210 20]

As Tom mentioned the tracking is not to be neglected, have a read of this topic:

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=112468

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

These three things make a nice difference:

 

1. Rebuilt rear beam

2. xsara vts rack (2.4 turns lock to lock)

3. solid rear beam mounts ( makes you feel more in control of the back end)

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

You cant beat getting all worn suspension parts done as already said Check:

ovaled hubs

droplinks

wishbones

bushes

steering arms

tyres

tyres balancing

tracking

steering universal joint

[johnhenry 20]

at £500 you could either go for a Bilstein or Koni or similar uprated damper, or go for Peugeot Original, either direction afaik will allow for some spare change to replace the top mount rubbers and bearings, wishbone bushes and beam bushes.

 

 

firstly before all that though, is the beam a known quantity?

 

Rear Beam was replaced in 2007, along with Group A solid rear mounts (have only just seen that on the receipt!)

 

 

I recently did some work on a 205 GTI 1.9 for a guy off here, he wanted the suspension freshening up and upgrading a bit for road use.

We fitted a pair of Eibach front springs with Bilstein B4 dampers, and then at the rear a rebuilt beam with a pair of brand new genuine Peugeot 306 GTI6 rear dampers.

 

With the tracking reset and all bushes etc checked and replaced as needed the end result was a really nice car to drive, nicely weighted without being too crashy, great steering feedback.

 

I was very impressed and would fit the same again with no hesitation at all.

 

Sounds like the right sort of thing im looking for, rear beam replaced 3 years ago, so thats ok, means abit more money for other stuff, what was this chaps name if he is on here? will drop him a line

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

If you're lowering the ride height, budget for beam seals to be replaced. Not that they cost much.

 

What about the Bilstein Challenge setup? Very highly regarded on here. If too expensive, the Bilstein Sprintline kit was great on my old car.

[shalmaneser 26]

A lot of people seem keen on upgrading (stiffening up) the front without doing much to the rear spring rates apart from dropping it to match the front. Having done this myself I found the car to be unpleasantly understeery, so dropped a (rebuilt) 309 beam in which was slightly stiffer and helped regain a much more neutral balance. I'd highly recommend doing this as well, or just fitting some 20mm TBs to the 205 beam. The extra width I can take or leave TBH.

 

I'm very happy with my handling which (rear beam aside) is very similar to those posted above:

 

Eibach springs,

Gaz dampers,

309 wishbones

New top mounts and bushes at the front

 

309 (20mm TB) rebuilt rear beam

Gaz dampers

Solid rear mounts - highly recommended

 

Only thing I'd like to do now is to fit a slightly thicker rear ARB, I'm thinking about 23mm.

 

After reading Anthony's thread I then found out that this is very close indeed to the Skip Brown roadspeed conversion, which seems to be very highly though of, both on here and in the professional press (back in the day!)

[Rob Thomson 6]

Suspension choice is so subjective and depends so much on your driving style and where you drive the car. I'm a rally-boy at heart, which perhaps explains why I've never understood the obsession with lowering cars. For track use then fair enough, but for the roads you need suspension travel, compliance and the feel you get from a softer set-up.

 

A couple of years ago I gave my 1.6 GTi a thorough mechanical rebuild, and treated it to largely standard (albeit genuine) parts. This was before Peugeot went mad with their prices for front struts which might render this option prohibitive now. The only non-standard suspension parts I fitted were solid rear mounts (which I've always found to help the controllability of the back end) and I later changed to GTi-6 rear dampers. It shouldn't come as a surprise given the GTi's reputation, but a good standard chassis is really something very special. It's reasonably grippy, but much more importantly it's communicative, tactile and adjustable. It's a wonderful thing and I've yet to drive a modified 205 that's come close to being such a good overall package.

 

Unless you spend a lot of time on track I reckon you'll struggle to do better than a refreshed standard set-up. But as I say, it's all very subjective, and I am a miserable old git.

[Baz 421]

A lot of people seem keen on upgrading (stiffening up) the front without doing much to the rear spring rates apart from dropping it to match the front. Having done this myself I found the car to be unpleasantly understeery, so dropped a (rebuilt) 309 beam in which was slightly stiffer and helped regain a much more neutral balance. I'd highly recommend doing this as well, or just fitting some 20mm TBs to the 205 beam. The extra width I can take or leave TBH.

 

I'm very happy with my handling which (rear beam aside) is very similar to those posted above:

 

Eibach springs,

Gaz dampers,

309 wishbones

New top mounts and bushes at the front

 

309 (20mm TB) rebuilt rear beam

Gaz dampers

Solid rear mounts - highly recommended

 

Only thing I'd like to do now is to fit a slightly thicker rear ARB, I'm thinking about 23mm.

 

After reading Anthony's thread I then found out that this is very close indeed to the Skip Brown roadspeed conversion, which seems to be very highly though of, both on here and in the professional press (back in the day!)

 

Yes, although the extra length of the 20mm bars on a 309 beam only essentially equate to the 19mm on 205 beams anyway, so makes minor difference from that sense.

[Tom Fenton 1,536]

I keep meaning to calculate that but never get around to measuring the bars. Anyone want to measure the effective length (from where it necks down each end near splines) of 205 and 309 bars?

[swordfish210 20]

I keep meaning to calculate that but never get around to measuring the bars. Anyone want to measure the effective length (from where it necks down each end near splines) of 205 and 309 bars?

 

 

We had to do an assignment in our 2nd year at Uni part of which was to measure spring rates. I allways wanted to calculate the rate of a torsion bar instead of a coil spring but no one would let me

[Tom Fenton 1,536]

Quite a simple calc, diameter is to the power 4 so makes a large difference for a small change.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Have to agree for a road car I would

 

Bilstein B4 Fronts, either std new springs (they do make a differance) or the Eibachs if the rear is lowered

306 K6 or Bilstein, ZX B4 rears (Only on lowered cars) or Group N rear Dampers

205 Wishbones (No one does good 309 ones now)

Drop Links

TRE

Top Mount Kit, Std Rubbers

[swordfish210 20]

Quite a simple calc, diameter is to the power 4 so makes a large difference for a small change.

 

True but the springs we were measuring had a poundage stamped on them, i wanted to do it so i could build something to measure them with.

[shalmaneser 26]

Yes, although the extra length of the 20mm bars on a 309 beam only essentially equate to the 19mm on 205 beams anyway, so makes minor difference from that sense.

 

Subjectively there was definitely a difference, an increase of 1mm diameter is a relatively large increase in area.

 

20mm = 314mm^2

 

19mm = 283mm^2

 

That's a 10% increase in area, which I'm sure would count for more than the 'softening' effect of the wider back end.

[johnhenry 20]

nks for all the feedback! given me so much to think about

ive given someone an email regarding their setup (cheers tom) but yeh im gonna just get as much information as possible, as im clueless about suspension etc etc, applying general common sense (as everyones doing on here, its not just new main components, all the little bits add up. the BBM stuff people are recommending will be purchased on the 15th when i get paid , but will probably end up just accumulating stuff until christmas when the cars going home, will have a month to fit stuff and give it a proper shakedown.

 

With £500 you should be able to afford some decent stuff, my reccomendations would be:

 

Front Dampers: Bilstein OE Blacks, i've used them before and they're pretty good. You can get them from Euro Car Parts or GSF.

 

Springs: Eibach lowering springs. If you want the car to handle well you'd be foolish to use anything other than Eibach springs.

 

BBM Grp N Top Mount rubbers, ride quality will suffer as a result but the turn in will definely improve.

 

ARB, leave the standard one on there, it will work best with this setup.

 

Rear Beam, With your budget you may be able to strech to a rebuilt beam (unless yours is in a known good condtion) which will help the cars performance in the bends no end. Grp N Rubbers are good but personally i would go with the Solid Grp A ones.

 

If you have some money left over then i would get a decent steering rack, Xsara VTS racks seem very popular, this will complement the stiffer bushes and springs in the front end.

 

You can get most of this stuff from Miles at PugRacing and Stew at Baker Bushes and Mountings (BBM)

 

The rear beams in good nick, replaced in 2007, and has group A rear mounts (to my surprise!)

ill need new rears for sure, cars been lowered at the back (which ive never got round to lifting) and one of them is weeping a tiny tiny amount.

[Stevo309 0]

Having recently asked the same question and wanting to get the handling sorted on mine for fast road use i followed the advice of others on here and ended up with the setup that Tom describes, I can honestly say that i am very pleased with it. Very nice handling but no compromise on comfort or ride.

 

Bilstein B4 front dampers

Eibach springs

New oem top mounts

New drop links

New steering rack and tre's

New oem wishbone inner bushes

 

Fully rebuilt ream beam

306 k6 oem rear shocks

 

My only other reamaining mod is to tighten up the steering ratio as the non-pas rack seems a little unwieldy, I have bought a quaife quick rack connversion for this but not yet fitted.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I thought the Xsara rack too doesn't fit well due to the U/J size, Rumors have been around that a late P/S 205 one fits but no one I know can find one.

Off topic but I normally keep all the suspension parts in stk as it's a popular swap

[johnhenry 20]

I thought the Xsara rack too doesn't fit well due to the U/J size, Rumors have been around that a late P/S 205 one fits but no one I know can find one.

Off topic but I normally keep all the suspension parts in stk as it's a popular swap

 

I have just Pm'd you chap, just with what was recommended by mr Fenton (im going with his experience and the testimony of the persons car it was set up on) just wondering on

1st, your personal thoughts on the setup?

2nd, prices?

Cheerrrs dude