[car_overhaul] Roadspeed Revival

[welshpug 1,657]

Take a look at Damir thread, then look back at yours

 

I am slightly dreading recommissioning my 205 now

[Anthony 1,003]

Take a look at Damir thread, then look back at yours

I know, I know - it's not that major at all in the grand scheme of things, but you can't help but feel a little downbeat when you're having to cut holes in the car because the tin worm fairy has paid a visit. I'll be back to glass half-full (or as close as I ever get anyway) once the welding is done I'm sure

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Think yourself lucky you don't own a late 80's Ford or Vauxhall, let alone a Mini or Mk2 Escort, you'd be welding in full panels not just the odd patch. Talking of a reshell just because of those couple of patches is ludicrous in my opinion. Make the plates fit well, and an hours welding and a bit of grinding back and you won't know there is a plate there.

 

For example

 

Before

 

During

 

After

[Anthony 1,003]

I'll man the f**k up now

[swordfish210 20]

Think yourself lucky you don't own a late 80's Ford or Vauxhall, let alone a Mini or Mk2 Escort, you'd be welding in full panels not just the odd patch. Talking of a reshell just because of those couple of patches is ludicrous in my opinion.

 

Ditto, my jaw nearly hit the desk when you said you wanted to reshell just because of a few tiny holes. Have some pics of the Mk2 Escort that me and my friend restored at college:

 

http://www.talk-torque.com/forums/viewtopi...p?f=4&t=349

[Anthony 1,003]

I can't see that link without a login, but I'm sure I can imagine.

 

Maybe I should explain what I meant, as I think people are perhaps taking the "reshell" comment a touch too literally rather than how it was intended - for confirmation, I am *not* reshelling the car, as said immediately after mentioning that I briefly pondered the thought.

 

The reshell ponder came when it felt like all I was doing was finding more and more rust on the shell, and having to take a grinder to it and cutting out more and more bits. Mechanical stuff and auto electrics don't phase me in the slightest, but I freely admit to being inept when it comes to bodywork, rust and welding - and hence whilst a blown engine or screwed wiring wouldn't bother me in the slightest - despite being enough that others would throw in the towel - bodywork and rust issues are, to me, more of an issue than they would be to others. I am determined to learn though and that's why I'm taking it on myself, as daunting as I find it because it's outside of my comfort/experience zone.

 

Also, remember that I will effectively be part reshelling this car anyway given how much is going to be swapped over (engine, beam, suspension, steering) and how much has been removed already and will be removed as part of the above. To start with another shell would be surprisingly little extra work, but again as said, who knows what issues I'd find with that - atleast I know this shell well, and whilst the rust is disappointing and depressing, I know the rest of it is sound.

 

Of course I know full well that it's nothing like in the same game, let alone league as a 70's or 80's Ford, Vauxhall or Alfa, and said as much further back in the thread.

 

Tom has kindly given me a few pointers regarding making up the repair plates and going about sorting it, and that's exactly what I intend to do - sort it and once again have the old girl eating up a B-road with a grinning idiot behind the wheel

[swordfish210 20]

I can't see bodywork and panel making to be much of an issue for you as it requires lots of attention to detail which you seem to have in abundance The Escort was basically complete rotbox, the only panel that was partially servicable was the roof, everything else had to be made/replaced/repaired

[The Arch Bishop 0]

I know how you feel Anthony! It's pretty easy for people to say 'Cut it out and weld a new bit in. Bosh, job done!' But it's a little more daunting when you don't have the tools, skill or knowledge to do something like this.

 

It'll be well worth it when you're done anyway. Great read this by the way!

[Andy_C 50]

I'm sure you'll set about this and do a proper job mate. I don't claim to know you all that well but I'm pretty confident that you seem the type of bloke not to let a few snags put you off - and to be fair it's not as if you wrap your car up in cotton wool and don't use it as intended; to some extent it's that which kinda inspires me to use mine properly and not treat it like a Rembrandt.

[Anthony 1,003]

Fear not Andy, I'm still cracking on.

 

I didn't get much time to do much today in between the showers and dropping some parts down to Surrey this morning. I did atleast get chance to finish off the areas in the boot floor that I had to cut the rust out of, squaring them off neatly to hopefully make for a better end result, rather than the "puddle shaped" cutouts I had before as Tom Fenton kindly described them

 

Offside top, nearside bottom - now squared off rather than puddle like

 

Just need to make up some patch plates to weld in now, and then hopefully a good friend will be helping me with the welding next weekend. I've got to take the car upto him though, so I've temporarily put the tank and beam back on so that it's driveable again (or will be once I've put a drivers seat back in anyway), and then remove them again once I'm up there to do the welding.

 

Once the welding is done, it's back on for the beam and tank, drive home again, and then back off to de-rust and underseal the car. I'll have the swap down to a timescale that'll rival a WRC pitcrew by the time I'm done

[16v205 9]

Remind me not to let you loose with a pokey stick anywhere near my car, doesnt look too bad a job to sort out at the minute.

 

Whats the plan of attack when it comes to areas with 2 skins that have been cut out?

[Baz 421]

The reshell ponder came when it felt like all I was doing was finding more and more rust on the shell, and having to take a grinder to it and cutting out more and more bits. Mechanical stuff and auto electrics don't phase me in the slightest, but I freely admit to being inept when it comes to bodywork, rust and welding - and hence whilst a blown engine or screwed wiring wouldn't bother me in the slightest - despite being enough that others would throw in the towel - bodywork and rust issues are, to me, more of an issue than they would be to others. I am determined to learn though and that's why I'm taking it on myself, as daunting as I find it because it's outside of my comfort/experience zone.

 

Yet you've on more than one occasion told me to keep cars in response to me having re-shell thoughts, when they've been much worse than yours even before being poked and investigated!!

 

Never the less i'm sure it will come good as you say, and these thoughts shall be a thing of the past! Cracking work thus far anyhow, puts me to shame anyway!!

[Anthony 1,003]

Whats the plan of attack when it comes to areas with 2 skins that have been cut out?

I'm all ears for advice from my friendly welder (or anyone else on here who's more clued up than me)

 

The two panels are only held together by the odd spot weld rather than seam welded or anything, so hopefully despite the poor access from underneath to the ones in the boot, there will be sufficient access to pop a couple of tacks on once the patch panel is in place, and then I guess some seam sealer to provide additional support and prevent water getting in.

 

The bit under the seat has much better access once the beam and tank are removed, so shouldn't be an issue to weld the two layers back together again, although the spot welds are largely still present on the remaining part seeing as I had to cut away at both layers due to the rust, and hence probably just needs the edge bending back and tacking in place (and then seam sealing again to prevent moisture getting in)

 

As said, I'm all ears for advice if this isn't a good way at tackling it

[SurGie 54]

Its coming along well Anthony.

 

Which side will you weld the plate in for the rear seat areas ?

 

For mine i am thinking of putting the plate underneath then weld the beam strength plate to the new plate with one long weld all the way around to help stop the water getting in and getting trapped again, i dont fully trust sealant to stop it completely.

 

I have done a little ARC and MiG welding before now, just not to this scale and i am worried welding all around may mean the area gets too hot which could distort the metal too much ??

[Anthony 1,003]

If you're going to be spending the weekend outside welding your car, the ideal weather that you'd hope for would probably be warm and dry. What Saturday morning greeted me with however was snow and bitter cold, which is precisely what I didn't want - but such is life sometimes and I headed upto Rich's who'd offered to help me with the welding and was no doubt secretly regretting that offer himself given the weather.

 

 

Firstly I made up the plates to fit into the two areas that I cut out of the boot, cutting and bending them to shape as per the advice that Tom Fenton gave me. Took me a little bit of time, but I was happy with the end resulting couple of snuggly fitting plates that were shaped to match the contours of the boot floor

 

 

The plate for under the rear seat proved a bit of a headscratcher and neither of us were entirely convinced that we'd be able to make a decent patch in the correct shape given the size and bowl-like contours, and the "tack and bash" approach we weren't convinced by either seeing how thin and easy to bend metal that we'd be welding to was.

 

In the end, I decided that the best course of action was to cheat, and cut the panel out of the scrap M-reg 205 diesel that Rich had lying in the corner of his yard and use that as the basis for the repair. The diesel shell had a surprising amount of rust in the boot and I wasn't hopeful when I peeled back the boot mat to reveal a view of the snow-covered ground below, but thankfully the area below the offside rear seat base wasn't too bad and I chopped part of that out to use.

 

Having drilled out the spot welds and eventually cut and trimmed the panel to size, it was time to hand it over to my tame welder who'd been bribed into helping with jaffa cakes and the promise of chinese takeaway. I didn't get a picture of the patch for under the rear seat, but you can just about make it out in the picture of Rich tacking it into place:

 

 

Despite the biting cold and somewhat lousy quality welding wire that intermittently wouldn't feed properly, Rich did a great job of the welding and the three patches are firmly in place and hopefully be barely noticeable once I've ground the welds back and given it a lick of paint. I didn't get any pictures of the finished welds as it was dark by this point, but I'll get some when I next get chance to work on the car in the light.

 

Fuel tank, rear beam and exhaust were refitted in temperatures that had dropped to -5 degrees C at this point, having not made it above freezing all day. With the car back together and running again, it was back to his house for a well earned Chinese and chance to thaw out.

 

Once again, just want to say a HUGE thanks to Rich (16v205 on here) for all his hard work over the weekend in distinctly unfavourable conditions - it really is much appreciated

[Anthony 1,003]

Which side will you weld the plate in for the rear seat areas ?

 

For mine i am thinking of putting the plate underneath then weld the beam strength plate to the new plate with one long weld all the way around to help stop the water getting in and getting trapped again, i dont fully trust sealant to stop it completely.

The three plates were all welded in from the above (ie inside the car) and then the plate on the underside of the rear seat was welded back in from underneath and joined back onto the section that runs back to the rear beam mounts.

 

I couldn't see an easy way of being able to weld that panel all the way around due to the shape of it, not to mention how thin the panel that you'd be welding into is. I figure that if it's lasted 15-20 years as it left the factory with just a little underseal to keep the elements at bay, then chances are that it should last a few years atleast with some half-decent underseal and some seam sealer for good measure. Time will of course ultimately tell.

[gowmonster 2]

Ditto, my jaw nearly hit the desk when you said you wanted to reshell just because of a few tiny holes. Have some pics of the Mk2 Escort that me and my friend restored at college:

 

http://www.talk-torque.com/forums/viewtopi...p?f=4&t=349

 

interesting read, did you ever finish it?

[swordfish210 20]

/\/\ The shell was built up to Grp4 spec minus a roll cage but then after it was shot blasted my friend ran out of money/enthusiasm and the shell was sold off. It still needed a lot of work doing after 3 years of fabrication but it was proof that even the most rotten of shells can be sucessfully saved.

[Toddy 7]

Anthony - Found a SBC invoice for the phase 2 suspension, the recommended tyre pressures are 30 Psi front & 26 Psi rear, I assume this is measured cold with the primary aim being a road car.

 

Cheers

[feb 47]

Anthony - Found a SBC invoice for the phase 2 suspension, the recommended tyre pressures are 30 Psi front & 26 Psi rear, I assume this is measured cold with the primary aim being a road car.

 

Cheers

 

Are these pressures for the road or rallying?

IIRC Robsbc mentioned ages ago that SBC recommended very low rear tyre pressures.

I don't remember being told what pressures to use when I had the phase II fitted but I haven't asked either.

[Anthony 1,003]

Interesting - thanks for posting that up Toddy.

 

I probably should actually update this thread with progress so far and the developments with regards the cars future that's changed somewhat since I started!

[feb 47]

Interesting - thanks for posting that up Toddy.

 

I probably should actually update this thread with progress so far and the developments with regards the cars future that's changed somewhat since I started!

 

[Toddy 7]

Are these pressures for the road or rallying?

IIRC Robsbc mentioned ages ago that SBC recommended very low rear tyre pressures.

I don't remember being told what pressures to use when I had the phase II fitted but I haven't asked either.

 

The invoice was not for me, it was from someone selling some SBC bits on Ebay ages ago, I was having a clear out and noticed it.

[Anthony 1,003]

I spose I ought to get this thread up to date as quite a lot has happened this year!

 

With the welding all done, the car went back home and into the garage where it was once again stripped of the rear beam, brakes, and fuel tank to enable me to properly treat and re-underseal the underside of the car and hopefully keep any further rot at bay.

 

First the rust was ground back - a hateful job frankly as anyone that's one it will testify - then the structural parts were degreased and a couple of coats of Epoxy Mastic applied...

 

 

After giving that a couple of days to cure, the entire boot floor area was given a couple of coats of Waxoyl underseal and the brake lines and clips refitted. It looks a bit patchy in the picture, but that's because of the camera flash.

 

 

With that all done, the fuel tank could go back on together with the old rear beam to get it back on its wheels and outside into the cold light of early spring where I could finally start refitting the refurbed rear interior plastics back in and out of my living room where I was getting sick of tripping over them!

 

 

Of course, this shouldn't have taken me until spring to finish, but I'd been distracted with the other project 205 that I'd bought in the meantime - my black '92 1.6 GTi nicknamed "Project Jalopy" - and the '89 Eunos Roadster (JDM MX-5 basically) that I'd bought as a toy whilst I was 205-less.

[Anthony 1,003]

The problem with acquiring more cars is that inevitably you need to sell some, and this gave me somewhat of a dilemma as to what to do.

 

The white 205 I'd had for years and was half way through giving a whole lot of TLC and building upto the spec I wanted. The new black 205 I'd bought on somewhat of a whim not entirely sure what my plans were, but having got it home and stripped down, it had a better shell than my white 205 - but needed even more work. The 306 HDi was worth far more to me than it's monetary value and was a perfect daily hack. Finally the Eunos, it had taken me ages to find an example as good as this (just 47k miles and completely rot free) so I was loathed to sell that either.

 

About the same time as I was pondering this, Fivos - who I'd previous bought the 205 GTi-S from - had got in contact as he was having serious withdrawal symptoms without a 205 and as so often happens with ex-205 owners, wanted another.

 

A few different avenues were explored until eventually he asked me to build him another 205 from whichever of my two 205's I wasn't going to keep for myself. For days afterwards I pondered what to do, leaning one way and then the other - on one hand I had the white 205 that I knew like the back of my hand and had owned for years, but that time was starting to take its toll on, and on the other, I had the black 205 that had the better shell but needed a lot of work and was a bit of an unknown.

 

In the end, as much as it pained me, I decided to sell the white 205 - the loyal companion that had given faultless service for over five years and 60k miles - to Fivos to be the basis for his new 205. A decision that I'd live to regret? Quite possibly but only time would tell...