Which Coilovers?

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Looking at fitting coilovers to the 205, but not sure which to get. Gaz GHA/Golds or the PTS Bilstein ones?

 

I was going Gaz Golds until recently when I unearthed an article in Trac & Race Car mag on suspension and a test completed on the 'budget' end of coilovers. The Bilstein came out on top, against the Gaz Gold and usual Spax etc dross. I suppose the Gaz are rebound/bump adjustable whereas the Billies aren't but Bilstein appear to get the dampers spot-on.

 

Am I correct in thinking the PTS tarmac insert is similar to the Challenge fixed platform shock insert?

 

Or, if I go for the Gaz, is it advisable to get the full kit and replace the rear Bilstein Challenge shocks? I could save a few quid by going the PTS and keeping the rears.

[Anthony 1,003]

Personally, I'd go PTS everytime out of the two - I've never personally been that impressed with the various Gaz equiped 205's that I've driven.

 

In theory, you could get away with just getting the coilover body and using the inserts from your existing Challenge dampers - should work out alot cheaper I'd imagine, although you'd have to offset that against the fact that you'd no longer have the Challenge front dampers to sell on.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Personally, I'd go PTS everytime out of the two - I've never personally been that impressed with the various Gaz equiped 205's that I've driven.

 

In theory, you could get away with just getting the coilover body and using the inserts from your existing Challenge dampers - should work out alot cheaper I'd imagine, although you'd have to offset that against the fact that you'd no longer have the Challenge front dampers to sell on.

 

That was the idea, flog the Challenge fronts to offset cost. But I've just seen the price of the body and insert on Special Tuning, £300+VAT a corner! Must be somewhere cheaper than that.....

 

I think Compbrake sold the body's, just need to source inserts.

 

Compbrake do, £75each.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

PTS here too; proven in motorsport time and time again - mine did 8 years of competition, predominantly tarmac but also a few ventures in the forests, and they came off last year looking immaculate and still functioning perfectly. Provided you look after them (and, in rally use, that means stripping them down for a clean and re-greases every 2 or 3 events) they last forever*.

 

* : figuratively speaking

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Again Billies, the cheap Gaz's are quite poor I;ve found and going to the top line ones you can buy the budget AST's etc which are much better again. I know a suspension man that always say's that good dampers do not need adustment.

Dino's mate Das is selling some bodies, I think they mightbe Compbrake ones having not seen them I cannot say for sure,

[welshpug 1,658]

at the price of a Bilstein setup, you may be able to get some AST Sportline 1 dampers

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

at the price of a Bilstein setup, you may be able to get some AST Sportline 1 dampers

 

ASTs are £1100 inc. VAT on kamracing! Or is there somewhere cheaper?

[welshpug 1,658]

didn't realise they were quite that much, that may be including their £250 top mounts though.

 

try Curtis at AST directly, http://www.astsuspensionuk.com/news.asp?inc=blog

 

I thought they were closer to £850 for the 4 dampers, but that may be plus vat.

 

It's close to what the PTS kit would cost you when you factor that the rear dampers in the bilstein kit cost £200 a pair.

Edited November 1, 2010 by welshpug

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The rear billies are only £70 ish each which I would run over the AST's unless they have improved them allot since I last used them

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

The rear billies are only £70 ish each which I would run over the AST's unless they have improved them allot since I last used them

 

I already have the rear Challenge Bilsteins.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Alan_M

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

Gaz are twin tube. PTS mono. Enough said?

 

http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=2838

http://www.ek9.org/forum/suspension/4741-m...-info-tein.html

 

The gaz strut bodies are quite wide in diameter however, to compensate for piston area lost compared to a monotube design.

I went gaz coz they were half the price of ASTs etc.. with the group buy, and I'm not a good enough driver to notice a difference especially with the limited changes you can make to a 205 whilst 'testing'. I also have no idea whether or not the damping rates are any good for my choice of spring rate and without spending MEGA £££ rebound and bump is on one dial. Also no adjustment for high and low speed damper velocity.

[Baz 421]

Given two 205's, one on Gaz's & the other on PTS Billies, you'd certainly notice the difference. Especially in the lower range stakes, even fixed platform Billies/Koni's etc are miles better than the Gaz equivalent or even GHA Coilovers.

[feb 47]

Since ASTs were mentioned, I was never happy with the ASTs my Forester came with and I was not the only one to have problems.

They would be OK-ish on smooth roads but on bumpy roads the car would bounce around. Adjusting them softer would lead to floating, making them harder the bound would be too stiff for the rebound to be OK, could never really find a golden mean. In summary I needed more rebound.

If you can get a ride on a car that already has coilovers before choosing what to buy. Suspension is something completely subjective and what is good to one might be crap for someone else IMHO.

I guess this will be a dedicated track car?

Edited November 2, 2010 by feb

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

well I went from b6 to gaz gold and the car handles better. Can't really comment on the difference between dampers as the changes included more camber stiffer springs and 23mm bars with zx arms. It certianly was fine with the bumps at abingdon and silverstone. But thats all I have done with the new setup. Next up is some tarmac rears to replace the b6s which are probably underdamped for 23mm torsion bars.

 

Either way I'm happy with the GAZ suspension and the value. Car kept up with lots of elise type machinery around the bends and they must have been trying as were under/oversteering in front of me.

[welshpug 1,658]

tarmac rear will likely be still underdamped for 23mm as tarmac 205's ran 21mm.

 

309's ran bigger IIRC.

[Gibbo GTI 0]

I'm planning on running GAZ GHA's with 400lb springs on mine so i'm glad someone posted they are happy with them. I was expecting more replies considering the number of people running GAZ coilovers from the previous group buys. Are you guys not happy with them?

[boombang 2]

tarmac rear will likely be still underdamped for 23mm as tarmac 205's ran 21mm.

 

309's ran bigger IIRC.

 

Not so certain about that Mei, from what I remember from the Peugeot Rally Club newsletters and PTS build manuals I have, they ran up to 23mm bars on the tarmac cars and again IIRC 24mm on the 309s.

 

I'm pretty sure that drivers went with what they preferred, Del @ SBC gave me that impression too when I chatted to her a few years back about them. Julian apparently liked it very hard!

 

I've always found the Bilstein tarmac rears very firm side on standard bars, even on Kev's car with the 21mm bars they are very firm still (albeit well controlled).

 

Hopefully in a few months I can let you know what Billies are like on 23mm bars, although I'll have to check the markings on them to see what spec they are.

[shalmaneser 26]

I've very happy with my gaz dampers but don't have much to compare them to. They aren't coilovers but matched with the Eibach fast road springs they're much more controlled than the OE stuff, much less roll and tons of grip. You do need to get the back end up to scratch though, I've got a 309 rebuilt beam and I do think it needs a slightly thicker ARB to increase the turn in a touch.

 

I cannot believe that 'good dampers don't need adjustment', this might be the case with a spring and damper combination but if you want to have some flexibility re. spring rates you definitely need adjustment.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

400lbs/in seems a very high spring rate. I run 250 with my 23mm bars. Doesn't oversteer that much. But I reckon the cars at a stage where the floppy chassis needs sorting out. The OMP cage only goes to the front beam mounts and no where near the front turrets

[Gibbo GTI 0]

400lbs/in seems a very high spring rate. I run 250 with my 23mm bars. Doesn't oversteer that much. But I reckon the cars at a stage where the floppy chassis needs sorting out. The OMP cage only goes to the front beam mounts and no where near the front turrets

 

I have a seam welded shell, challenge spec roll cage, 24mm torsion bars and a 24mm anti-roll bar. 400lb springs were what GAZ recommended for my cars setup.

[Rippthrough 98]

Gaz are twin tube. PTS mono. Enough said?

 

Not really, some of the best dampers available are twin tubes....

It's more about quality of design and construction, and how well suited the valving is to the way you drive.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Rippthrough

[Rippthrough 98]

I cannot believe that 'good dampers don't need adjustment', this might be the case with a spring and damper combination but if you want to have some flexibility re. spring rates you definitely need adjustment.

 

A damper is never set perfectly for anything but a single driving style, car, tyre and situation, so I'd agree with you there, they're always a compromise over everything.

Some are more compromised than others, but there's no magical 'perfect' setting out there, no matter how good the damper is.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

I have a seam welded shell, challenge spec roll cage, 24mm torsion bars and a 24mm anti-roll bar. 400lb springs were what GAZ recommended for my cars setup.

 

fair enough

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Sorry for hijacking the topic, but how would the GAZ GHA's compare with KW Galvanised Variant 1, or Weitec sets?

(have 309 front ARB and 309 GTI 8v rear beam on the 205)

[SurGie 54]

How about Koni ?

 

Iv been advised that Koni are good for fast road use without having too much of the hard ride you get from Billies.