My 205 Handles Like Poo.

[Toddy 7]

Tom

 

I think the front and rear spring rate may be out of balance, therefore causing the lurch, does it cock a rear wheel easy?

 

I would raise the front to make the wishbones atleast parellel, while still having 10-15mm rake, with the rear higher, if your primarily objective is to rid understeer although it may feel a bit nervous with the rake.

 

In your quest to find a better balance, either switch back to std Tb's or 20/21mm bars while retaining the 6 ARB or switch the 6 ARB for a std one, a doddle for you, personally I would go for the first option as it will retain better ride comfort.

 

String it up and check the rear beam has equal amounts of toe either side.

 

Finally when you are happy take it somewhere like guglielmimotorsport to be setup.

 

Disclaimer: All my opinion and gleaned from opinionated car forums

 

Ps I had 23mm Tb's & 25mm ARB and hated them.

[TT205 42]

Any wiser Tom?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I'm waiting for some hubs to arrive so I can get that bit ironed out first, after that I'm going to raise the front ride height and re-track it, and see what effect that has until I can get some solid beam mounts made on my lathe.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

I personally don't get on with 309 beams, I find the car feels very dull and I'm not keen on how they look (not as that matters )

 

The quicker rack will transform the car, as you know I had a 3.8 rack on mine originally and it was like a bloody tiller rather than a steering wheel. Fitted a 3.2 rack and it's awesome!! I run about 1mm of toe out aswell and find the turn in really good.

 

Defo get some solid beam mounts knocked up, IMO these are a must for 205s.

You'll have to have a do in mine at curbrough, it's a lot closer to standard than yours but it's got the quicker rack + LSD + torque so it'll give you a bit of food for thought.

 

P.s another 8 valves would probably improve things too

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I'm waiting for some hubs to arrive

I got my brother to check and he has a pair and is saving them as he is on about uprating his CTI with them. I'll keep my ears open for some. Someone must be able to bring some to Curborough

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Henry, thanks for asking Mike, I've managed to find a bargain pair at £30 buy it now on flea bay so those are hopefully on their way to me.

 

Al I'd be interested to try yours as I think it is the torque and diff that doesn't help matters, as you know the White one is pretty stable and holds on well, if I can get the red one a bit closer to it I'll be happy.

[welshpug 1,658]

how does the spec differ to the White car Tom?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Pretty much chalk and cheese!

 

White car on left - red car on right

 

205 bones - 309 bones

avo coilovers - gaz coilovers

250lb springs - 225lb springs

eccentric top mounts - STD with gp n rubber

309 front ar bar - STD ar bar

STD rack toe out - STD rack 0.5mm toe in

205 beam - 309 beam

solid beam mounts - STD beam mounts

205 trailing arms - xsara vts trailing arms

21mm bars - 23mm bars

24mm rear ar bar (both cars)

upper strut brace - upper and lower strut brace

 

oh and the most important, White car has cage tied into roof pillars and beam mounts.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Tom Fenton

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Have you tried a but of toe out?

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Agreed; toe-out or at least parallel if it's not big power might work well (but fix the hubs thing first). I never liked mine with toe-in and, on hard power and uneven surfaces, it was horrendous... but I will say, in fairness, there were lots of other things that also contributed (an ovalled hub, stiff front ARB, crap geometry in general...!)

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I may try it once I've got it better than it currently is, I have the white one set to toe out and its great round the ring, but nervous on the road.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

That's weird, I was fine in the White car on the road but nervous as hell round the ring :D

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Sounds like you need some toe in on your underpants, that should sort it!!

 

Besides, all you had to do was furtively start the timer whilst I wasn't looking, and cheer once per lap when we did that deceptive kerb on the left hand side flat out yet again!!

Edited October 29, 2010 by Tom Fenton

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

You can Keep your bloody toes out of my pants thankyou

 

It's funny actually, I spoke to mr withers after we got back and he told me he won't even get in the car with you on track anymore!! That makes me big bollocked passenger extrodinaire!!

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

The cheeky sod, he usually scares the life out of me with his "leave steering and braking to the last moment and then do both violently at the same time" tactics!

[petert 588]

Here's my thoughts. Definitely faster rack and solid rear mounts. To run 23mm bars successfully you need to match the front spring rate. More like 300-330lbs on the front. You also need heaps of +ve castor however, which will promote neg. camber on turn in. I'm not sure you'd like that on a street car. I'd be swapping the torsion bars between the two cars. The 21mm bars will be much nicer with the 225lb springs. My experience with 23mm bars and cars with no or limited roll cage has always been poor.

 

If you've got coil overs on the red car, why run 309 bones? Why can't you increase the castor?

Edited October 30, 2010 by petert

[Rippthrough 98]

I'd cycle the front suspension without a spring on and check the bumpsteer Tom, my 306 went out of whack with wider wishbones so I'd assume the 205 is much the same, the initial lack of castor made it worse as the car always seemed to have a slight moment on turn in where the steering went a little light and it felt like you were catching it all the time - at a guess the compression on the front struts gave little to no trail and it excaberated the slight bump steer.

[shalmaneser 26]

Well no, but both sides on the mini are attached to each other too, 's called the chassis

 

Lolz.

 

PS.Yeah this

 

disclaimer:I know nothing about any of this.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

OK so the first installment of "anti poo" started tonight.

 

First off in the hunt for the lurch on cornering I removed the NSF hub. I'd already replaced the OSF last week with a new bearing, made no difference.

 

Anyway despite what I thought I would find the balljoint and hub clamp were A1. Literally A1. I've turned up a dummy pin to use to check the hubs, and it slides in with a good shove, and no rock to it at all.

 

However the wheel bearing (GSF's finest, no more than 6k old) had a small but visible by eye amount of play in it. Not wanting to f. about I removed this and fitted a new bearing.

 

Put the hub back on the car, dropped it to the floor, levelled it out, then put the tracking sticks on it. About 10-15' toe in as I previously set it.

 

So next on the agenda was to increase the ride height, wishbones were pointing uphill to the hubs. Can't explain the next bit, but the NS front strut had about 2.5 turns of preload on the spring, the drivers side had none, or more accurately about -4 turns....

 

So adjusted both coilovers to roughly the same length between spring platforms, and raised the car a good 20mm or so.

 

Now the wishbones sit level or even slightly pointing down to the hub. Having said that the car does look horrendously high, but at the moment I'm more interested in making the bugger handle.

 

Tracking sticks back on and now from toe in, we have 10' toe out.

 

So I'm off to the PSOOC meet in a minute, and I'll see what its like on the way there and back. Fingers crossed for an improvement as if it looks silly high AND handles like poo I shall be very annoyed....!

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Well its certainly much better, although it has still got a wander to it most noticeable on and off the throttle. I'm not convinced about the hub I fitted to the drivers side so I'm going to change that back tomorrow and see how it is then.

 

On the plus side, I've found my missing boost, which was down to muck in the boost control valve. So full shove is resumed much to the dismay of the guy in the Clio 182 on the way home...

[swordfish210 20]

Good to see you are getting somewhere. Have you considered changing the front subframe mounts to the solid 309GTI ones?

[Anthony 1,003]

Good to see you are getting somewhere. Have you considered changing the front subframe mounts to the solid 309GTI ones?

You can't on 205 GTi shells - the subframe bolts straight to the chassis leg, rather than through a mount as such like on base models.

[swordfish210 20]

Ah i see, learn something new everyday

[Rippthrough 98]

Might have missed it, but what are the dampers set to Tom?

[TT205 42]

^^ stun