My 205 Handles Like Poo.

[Batfink 201]

^^ stun

 

must not laugh at trekkie jokes.........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

[Lan 24 1 Cars]

Good to see you are getting somewhere. Have you considered changing the front subframe mounts to the solid 309GTI ones?

 

good luck finding some now though! if you have some spare pm me

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Well an update.

 

First of all the lurch has gone (hooray).

 

Combination of putting a hub back on the car that was OK in the first place, and changing a wheel bearing in the other that didn't show much play either.

 

However I took one of the coilovers off the car to look at what would be needed to fit the eccentric top mounts to them, and found that certainly the drivers side one has little to no bump damping at all. To the point that just the weight of the top mount resting on top with no spring was sufficient to close it....no matter what was done with the adjuster, still little to no bump damping. Rebound damping fine, and getting stiffer as the damper is wound up.

 

To say I am annoyed is an understatement, these dampers have probably covered 6000 road miles in the 2 and a bit years since I bought them brand new from Gaz. Needless to say I will be on the phone tomorrow morning to see what can be sorted out.

[swordfish210 20]

good luck finding some now though! if you have some spare pm me

 

I was going to modify the standard ones to make them solid.

[swordfish210 20]

However I took one of the coilovers off the car to look at what would be needed to fit the eccentric top mounts to them, and found that certainly the drivers side one has little to no bump damping at all. To the point that just the weight of the top mount resting on top with no spring was sufficient to close it....no matter what was done with the adjuster, still little to no bump damping. Rebound damping fine, and getting stiffer as the damper is wound up.

 

To say I am annoyed is an understatement, these dampers have probably covered 6000 road miles in the 2 and a bit years since I bought them brand new from Gaz. Needless to say I will be on the phone tomorrow morning to see what can be sorted out.

 

Is it just me or do people on this forum seem to be having more and more problems with Gaz dampers these days. Personally i have never rated them as a damper, they allways felt a bit cheap and tacky to me but i seem to keep seeing threads about rusty ones and broken ones

[Lan 24 1 Cars]

Is it just me or do people on this forum seem to be having more and more problems with Gaz dampers these days. Personally i have never rated them as a damper, they allways felt a bit cheap and tacky to me but i seem to keep seeing threads about rusty ones and broken ones

 

yeah I've noticed that aswell, I hope my coilovers work properly when I get them on the car.

[Rippthrough 98]

However I took one of the coilovers off the car to look at what would be needed to fit the eccentric top mounts to them, and found that certainly the drivers side one has little to no bump damping at all. To the point that just the weight of the top mount resting on top with no spring was sufficient to close it....no matter what was done with the adjuster, still little to no bump damping. Rebound damping fine, and getting stiffer as the damper is wound up.

 

Knocked the base valve off with the piston on a rough road, I had the same problem a few years ago but they were supposed to have changed to a longer bumpstop since.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Rippthrough

[miamichris 9]

However I took one of the coilovers off the car to look at what would be needed to fit the eccentric top mounts to them, and found that certainly the drivers side one has little to no bump damping at all. To the point that just the weight of the top mount resting on top with no spring was sufficient to close it....no matter what was done with the adjuster, still little to no bump damping. Rebound damping fine, and getting stiffer as the damper is wound up.

 

To say I am annoyed is an understatement, these dampers have probably covered 6000 road miles in the 2 and a bit years since I bought them brand new from Gaz. Needless to say I will be on the phone tomorrow morning to see what can be sorted out.

 

Just for those among us that don't understand the difference between bump damping and rebound damping, could you explain this a bit Tom?

 

I find this all quite interesting and useful to know for any suspension troubleshooting in the future

[welshpug 1,658]

pretty simple, bump damping is for bumps, where the damper compresses.

 

rebound damping is the opposite i.e the up stroke where the damper extends.

[Rippthrough 98]

It's the damping that occurs as the suspension compresses. Rebound is as it extends.

 

Probably why you're struggling for traction too Tom, it'll bounce as the torque comes in, and the base valve that'll be damaged controls the cavitation under compression so you'll be missing the a portion of initial rebound damping as the gas is reabsorbed.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Rippthrough

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Well a small update, first off I'm impressed by the customer service from Gaz so far, I sent them an email last night and got a reply first thing this morning. I'm going to remove the dampers on Sunday and send them back early next week. Whilst they are away Gaz are also going to mod the piston rods for me to suit eccentric top mounts.

 

So fingers crossed with some bump damping restored the car will be a lot better.

 

I drove my other 205 to work this morning, and now knowing that there is a problem with the bump damping on the red car, it is so obvious the difference when driving the white one.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

So an update here.

 

The dampers are currently at GAZ, in fairness to them they received them sometime this morning and rang me before dinnertime. They've had them on the damper dyno and not found anything especially wrong with them which is a bit of a mystery, apparently the GHA I have are rebound adjustable only which explains no adjustment to it, but with this in mind I would have expected a bit more bump damping as a basic setting.

 

In any case, they are going to mod the piston rods, overhaul the dampers with new oil etc, and send them back to me built up with a pair of 275lb springs I have decided to try to see what difference a bit more front spring rate makes.

 

Having said all this, since sorting out the "lurch", and tracking it up, I did 1/2 a day at Curborough, and it performed pretty well, certainly seemed to be a lot better.

 

I've also received a length of 40mm acetal in the post today that I ordered to make some solid front beam bushes from, so that will also help no doubt.

 

So all in all I am getting there, slowly, but getting there.

 

Next big thing is the rack, having driven a few other cars at Curborough it is now obvious my car is crying out for this doing. As Allan calls it, the 3.8 turn rack is like having a tiller rather than direct steering, you are twirling the wheel about for angleterre for the slightest cornering.

[Rippthrough 98]

They should take roughly a second or so to go from full extension to full compression with your weight on 'em, if they've knocked the base valve off they'd do the the same with very little effort from 1 or 2 fingers...

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

It must have been me expecting more then, most dampers I've used before, especially uprated ones, would not have compressed from fully open to shut with just the weight of a top mount on them, these did however.

 

Looking forward to getting them back now and trying out the harder springs and also to get some castor on it.

[Rippthrough 98]

Possibly lost a touch of oil and the vacuum in the outer tube has helped suck the rod shut. Still not brilliant mind....

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I'll make my judgements when I get them back on the car, in fairness it was a lot better round Curborough than it has been, so I'm moving in the right direction with it.

[Rippthrough 98]

How fast did they compress with the weight of the top mount on them?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Over a few seconds, but I wouldn't have expected a top mount to move them down at all really? Certainly other dampers I have used in the past would not have done.

[Rippthrough 98]

Yeah, it should move, if you took the gas out of a set of bilstiens, etc, they'd do the same too.

Usually if a damper doesn't go down it's either got a lot of gas pressure or it's pretty poorly built and has a lot of internal friction.

 

The slow speed movements are controlled just by a hole in the piston, so the only force stopping the rod from moving is either friction inside the dampers, or a bit of what is effectively spring preload from gas pressure.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Rippthrough

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

So time for an update

 

First things first, I have to give a big thumbs up to GAZ for the customer service. Emails answered promptly, and Warren called me when the dampers had landed with him as he promised he would do.

 

According to GAZ they were OK when they received them, however doing to damper cycle test by hand they "seem" a bit stiffer. They've also changed the oil, so perhaps this will help.

 

Whilst they were there, they have sorted out fitting my compbrake top mounts, and also changed the springs at my request to 9" 275lb from the 225lb I had before.

 

Best bit of all, they had them turned around and back in the post to me within 24hrs, and as I type this, I haven't paid them yet!

 

 

I fitted them to the car tonight, setting the eccentric mounts to full castor, as the camber is already OK from the 309 wishbones. Checked and gave the tracking a tweek. Took the split rims off so the salt on the roads cannot attack them

 

So if its a fine day tomorrow I'll take it to work and see how it is now after the latest mods.

[saveloy 8]

Tomorrow is going to be pissy. Cold too. With a bit of low cloud miningness.

Bearing in mind that you don't drive very well, and get distracted by lamp posts, kittens and oxygen I'd leave the car keys in the kitchen.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Thanks for that contribution..................

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Assuming you've got the originals, keep the bearings in the top mounts well lubed and keep an eye on them - they're not the strongest set that compbrake provide (or, at least, they never used to). As per our chat at Curborough, I doubt fast road and track use will really see them much grief, but from a competition perspective they didn't last very well - particuarly when submitted to grot, grime and grit.

 

....but you probably know that

 

Have fun, let us know how you get on!

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I'll keep an eye on the bearings, looking at the mounts in general I'm considering making some more to allow the bearing centreline to move a lot further towards the edge of the mount, to get some more castor on the job.

 

However initial results this morning are really encouraging, even on a short run to work the car feels more balanced from the front springs, seems to have lost some vagueness which is from the top mounts, and the increased castor is absolutely an improvement, the increased steering self centreing is immediately evident, but the initial turn in is also improved.

 

All in all I'm pleased, and with the length of acetal nylon waiting to go in the lathe, I reckon there is some more improvement to come when I've solid mounted the rear beam.

[saveloy 8]

Ummm, apologies Tom. Occasionally that happens when I'm

given access to alcohol and an Internet connection.