[car_overhaul] Track Hack Refesh & Tidy Up.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

After my return from the Ring in May my car had developed a mysterious what I first thought to be a misfire possibly caused by picking up some dirty fuel on the drive back or the 20+ minutes sat at 6.5k+ on the autobahn with the oil & water temps on the higher end of the scales. One downside to running the oil & water remote heat exchanger.

 

Strangely I didn't notice misfire when we first arrived back in England, in fact, I didn't notice its appearance until almost home but that might've been because when I stopped for fuel etc it wasn't sat idling long enough.

 

Once I was home & with the MOT looming near I started swapping bits over hoping for a quick fix. New plugs, leads, coilpack, inlet air temp Sensor, TPS, crank sensor, ignition module & better fuel it improved slightly but it by much.

 

I thought I'd try a compression test to see if it was something worse than expected.

 

It was, #3 cylinder was showing low compression.

 

I checked the valve clearences to find they were all pretty tight, #3 down to just a few thou so I removed the cam & took the shims down to a friends engineering firm to have them surface ground for me to get the exact figures required.

 

Once they were refitted #3 still wasn't at the exact gap check (still to tight) but only by approx one thou so I put it all back together to see if it was right considering that shouldn't make much difference.

 

It ran better at idle but still wasn't how it should be so I decided it was time to take the engine out & put another one in at least temporarily before Cadwell in July.

 

I picked up a 1.9 from ebay for £35 & took a drive down to Buckley to collect it one afternoon after work.

 

Got it home & started to strip it down, everything seemed ok when it was all in pieces until I set about cleaning the block to find a nice crack running along the back on the water jacket side so that was scrap.

 

 

I was lucky enough to find another engine from a mates celler / garage just a few miles away so I went down to check that out after work & it all seemed OK. All the head bolts loosened OK so I returned the following evening to collect it although I did notice one was missed the spacer but the rocker cover had a sticker on stating it had been skimmed & a thicker head gasket should be used. Hmm, yeah, OK.

 

It turns out this bolt had a stripped thread in the block & a loose nut on the bottom so I ordered a helicoil kit hoping for an easy fix.

 

This started the first of several trips to my mates engineering firm.

 

Unfortunately the block thread was to far gone, highlighted by the fact the helicoil tap ran straight through without any need to drill it out to size first.

 

I put in a helicoil insert anyway & took the bottom end back home to see what torque it was happy with taking. It took 50lbft fine but the helicoil insert pulled out before it got to 70lbft so I was back to my mates for it fixing.

 

When I took the sump off to remove the oil pump etc to make it easier to stand I found the oil pump was missing one mounting bolt & the location for it on the block was exploded, I assume due to someone fitting the oil pump bolt when the hole had some oil in & this hydrauliced up until it cracked the corner killing the threads used by the bolt. he made a nice stainless insert to fit into the block from underneath the headbolt hole so its still there as a spare block should I ever need one that badly.

 

I put a wanted ad in the meantime looking for just a block or scrap bottom end with good block.

 

Pugpete1108 pm'd me about a 1.6 engine he had given away for the head & the rest wasn't getting used so I got in touch with Dan (jemehan) to see if he still had it.

 

Luckily he had so it was arranged for Pete to collect & then I'd get it off Pete at Pugfest.

 

I'd decided to use the engine in my car as it was for a Cadwell day in July a few of us from here were booked on because once the revs were above 2k it made no difference & you don't spend much time on track at that rpm so I figured it would either be the death of the engine or survive with no further degradation. The later stayed true & it was still working until I started to strip the car down to remove it althugh there was a lot of Mayo in the breather pipes this time.

 

Intentions for the "temp" engine was just a quick swap of the 1.9 internals from the ebay engine into the block from Pete but after reading Tom Fentons XU5T build topic & having wanting to use some 1.6 pistons in a 1.9 for a while things started to change spec.

 

I bought a head from Bottrill that had been skimmed slightly (0.007" or 0.175mm) during a very recently rebuild so even with the 1.6 pistons upping the c/r to approx 11:1 I figure the skim wouldn't matter much extra being such a light skim.

 

I used a mates pressure washer to clean the block, only to find it had previously been painted silver when I started scrubbing with a wire brush. Nevermind, the internals were my greater concern & they came up well enough.

 

I managed to press the gudgeon pins out of the 1.6 & 1.9 rods in a vice.

 

 

 

I cleaned everything up, soaking in vinegar & gunk to get the built up carbon etc off the pistons & then did the liners & rods as well.

 

The 1.9 pistons I removed & the cleaned 1.6 pistons I'm using;

 

 

1.9 conrod before & after cleaning;

 

 

 

Unfortunately after doing the liners I forgot to wipe them with some light oil for storage until the rebuild commenced & they developed a light surface rust so they were rehoned by a mate & the ring gaps checked. I'd kept all the rings matched to the liners they came from so reused them to save time for bedding in.

 

Once I found out how the pins were pressed back into the rods & realising it wasn't a home brew job I asked around for a suitable engine reconditioners locally to do them. Spike mentioned Myers in Monkton near York & a couple of mates said Drakes in Bradford so I rang Drakes the following day to see if they could do them.

 

I took them in later that day & they said approx 24 hours turn round so things were starting to move along.

 

I'd already checked the mains & big ends with a mic to find the were barely under the maximum new sizes & had no nasty marks so a crank regrind or polish wasn't required.

 

I picked up some Glyco standard size big end bearings for an XU10 on ebay for 99p (£6.50 p&p though ) & got some Glyco mains from Drakes for £40.

 

I'd been looking for some graphogen to coat the bearings in but found some Turco engine assembly lube from larkspeed in Cleckheaton so got that instead along with some plastiguage.

 

I fitted the crank into the block with the new bearings & plastiguaged them to see how things looked. All mains were between 0.073" & 0.050" so things looked good.

 

 

 

 

Once I've got the liners back from beng rehoned I checked the protrusion & all were good.

 

I refitted the rings to the pistons then with the liners & ring clamp oiled up started putting the back together ready to fit into the block once I'd put the crank back in for good.

 

I then had a months break due to coming off my bike taking a flap of skin out of my left palm meaning working with oil or wearing durex gloves was no go as an open wound.

 

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Once my hands were fully healed & I wasn't off doing other things I borrowed a recently calibrated torque wrench from work for doing the bottom end torques because even though I have a decent Kamasa torque wrench it was often left with the spring tensioned after use & I was unsure how accurate it might be.

 

With the crank in place & all torqued up it turned nice & freely.

 

All bearings & the crank oilways were coated with the Turco engine assembly lube as they went together.

 

After several weeks of head scratching during my hand healing looking for the liner seals I knew I had & checking everywhere I thought they were a couple of times I had a brain wave about where they were on a Saturday night out & went straight to them on Sunday in a box along with some new piston rings for safe keeping.

 

I put the liners in & torqued up the big ends with intentions of fitting the oil pump etc & having a completed bottom end by the end of the day.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, due to block differences I couldn't fit the 22t crank pinion for the XU10 oil pump I wanted to use.

 

Below is with the original 18t crank pinion & then with the intended 22t cog, you can see the offending material which isn't there on the scrap block with the crack along the back.

 

 

 

 

After considering methods of removing the offending material I took it to my friends engineering firm & we discussed how to proceed as posted in this topic

 

I ended up just having the web thinned down to clear but also got the crank pinion & spacer tacked together so its now driven by a woodruff key rather than relying on the pulley bolt tightness, not that I intend running with it loose.

 

 

 

 

 

I could've keep the standard 18t pinion but I'd much prfer to use the 22t one seeing as I've got it.

 

Graham.

[dan_cole69 0]

Very interesting read and well wrote,

 

Good luck with the build

 

dan

[Atari Boy 11]

Agreed, very useful thread, thanks for taking the time on this Graham.

[BusEngineer 7]

Great read, very interesting and informative

[boombang 2]

Cracking mate, love the way you've not just chucked a loads of parts together but done things properly.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Pressing the pins out of the rods is usually the harder part, a bit of heat on the little end and the pins push back in easy enough.

 

However I don't understand why you have had the liners honed and not fitted new piston rings, bit of a false economy there, especially as you are looking for as much compression as you can get.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I've never had any problem on any of the rods & pins I've split, they've always come out using the same method as above, without needing heat.

However I don't understand why you have had the liners honed and not fitted new piston rings, bit of a false economy there, especially as you are looking for as much compression as you can get.

I only had the liners honed becaue they developed a surface rust after I'd cleaned them but hadn't reprotected them.

 

Had I done so I wouldn't have had them done & just rebuilt them as is.

 

Wether this will be my downfall remains to be seen but it's a temporay engine thant might not even get used for a trackday but if its good then proper rebuild with new rings etc might get the same piston arrangement.

 

I'm not particularly looking for as much compression as I can get so its still ok for europe wide fuel but an healthy increase over standard or whatever my old engine was running on standard pistons & a 0.8mm skim.

 

But then I also have a set of 83.5mm pistons & rods with bushed little ends.

 

Graham.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

what sort of condition was the block in then Graham?

 

you say it was already sprayed? must have been before i had it then (so over 8yrs ago) as i ran the 1.6 for three years in mine before i put the xu10 in.

 

nice to see it went to good use. plus it was sat in the garage for maybe 4-5 yrs doing nothing

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

you say it was already sprayed? must have been before i had it then (so over 8yrs ago) as i ran the 1.6 for three years in mine before i put the xu10 in.

 

nice to see it went to good use. plus it was sat in the garage for maybe 4-5 yrs doing nothing

The block itself is fine, all good threads & no damage thats important.

 

Its been painted with what I assume was some silver engine paint on it, can't have been a bad job if it lasted that long & took me with gunk, a hot pressure wash & wire brush to bring it off.

 

It's a cheap build to bring a few plans together to consider in future, maybe sooner rather than later if it comes out as good as hoped.

 

I'll be paying a visit to Wayne at Chipwizards for the map adjusting so hopefully it'll find a few more llbft & hp.

 

Graham.

[superhero 0]

Really good, helpful thread that.

 

Good luck with the end result!

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Spent the day on Tuesday removing the subframe, steering rack & struts etc.

 

All came apart nice & easily with no rusted or sheared bolts to surprise me in about three hours so on Wednesday I could take the old engine & gearbox etc out.

 

While the subframe etc is out it'll be cleaned & I'm going to fit new arb bushes.

 

Front struts are getting some 180lb PLR tarmac front springs as well.

 

Engine etc was out in a couple of hours on Wednesday but I did discover a bit of rot around the bulkhead seam so that has put a hold on getting the engine swap finished until I get all the rot cut out & a repair plate / patch with fresh metal welded in.

 

 

 

 

I've removed the front seats & centre console to gain better access inside & also to see how far the rot went, thankfully its not that big an area to repair.

 

Also, after finding out that with my current baffle plate, a GTI-6 trapdoor sump wouldn't fit & neither would the Mi alloy one I was going to use prior to finding the GTi-6 sump.

 

As it turned out, even the original 1.9 8v tin sump wouldn't fit with the XU10 baffle plate on the pump so I've trimmed oil pump baffle to fit;

 

 

 

Shame when I went to fit the stiffener plate & sump on Saturday I realised I'd forgotten to buy a sump gasket only after I'd put sealant onto the stiffener plate ready to fit.

 

I took the cam out of my old engine this evening ready to fit to the new head in the next few days.

 

At least once the bulkhead is repaired it should all be ready to fit back in.

 

Graham.

[Have-a-go-al 0]

Hi

 

Whats the benifits of using the 1.6 pistons in a 1.9 engine?

 

Allan

[alync406 4]

Hi

 

Whats the benifits of using the 1.6 pistons in a 1.9 engine?

 

Allan

 

 

The 1.6 pistons have a smaller dish in them than the 1.9 ones so raise the compression ratio.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Well, what started as a (simple) engine swap is now developing into a minor refurb.

 

Thanks to work & the weather the work on the bulkhead is progressing slowly but today I got an hour to do some more by cutting out the rot on the bulkhead (& a bit extra) ready for a friend to take the pieces away & plasma cut me a repair section in 16G sheet at his work.

 

 

Once that's done & we get a dry day I can get it welded in place & start to repaint it along with the other sections I've de-rusted around the engine bay.

 

Then I'll give it a coat of underseal & start on the rebuild.

 

I'm also going to replce the fuel pipes while I've got such easy access.

 

Once the front end is complete I'm going to give the back axle a strip down to inspect & replace the beam bearings & seals etc as required & might fit the 21mm torsion bars I've got to make a closer match to the 180lb front springs.

 

Graham.

[JoshGti 8]

Graham,

 

where did you get the lightened bottom pulley for the 8v out of curiosity?? Besides the question, keep it coming, a good read on your engine build. Even if it is just temporary!

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

where did you get the lightened bottom pulley for the 8v out of curiosity??

 

From Tom Fenton.

 

On hold until I get the bulkhead patched up & repainted, I've got the plate almost ready to fit bar final trimming as needed.

 

I'm going to buy some weld thru primer today & give it a coat to start with.

 

Graham.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Some slow progress to report.

 

I've sourced the XU10 / S16 alloy trap door sump I want but I'm waiting for its delivery so in the mean time I'm doing some testing with the GTI-6 one I got on a bottom end by measuring the depth to see if its the same as a 1.9 steel sump & stiffener with just the 6 sump alone.

 

At the moment the 6 sump is at my mates machine shop having all the excess material (wings) removed by using an Mi alloy sump as an outline but I'll get it back tomorrow & do some testing when its back.

 

I'm going to put some plasticine onto the pump pick up cover & tighten the tin sump down to see how much it compresses it by, then remove the sump & stiffener & do the same with the 6 sump.

 

I believe they are the same internal depth so this will prove it.

 

If they are then I'll fit it & the head can go on in the next day or so.

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,661]

I can't imagine them being mush different Graham, still an XU10 after all

 

I've had a steel baffled S16 sump on the gti6 engine without any issues for the past 10k.

Edited November 18, 2010 by welshpug

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

We'll soon see but they look deeper than the Mi sump which without the stiffener plate is the same depth as the standard 1.9 set up or a 1.6 sump.

 

Peugeot designed the sumps for a certain capacity & set distance between the sump floor & pump pick up so even with the baffle plates in there I want to keep it as close to original as I can.

 

Graham.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

BIt of an update from my sump fitting tests.

 

After I got my GTI-6 alloy sump back from having its wings removed (Mi alloy sump for comparison);

 

 

I put some plasticine onto the oil pump pick up & tightened down the original 1.9 tin sump to see what gap there was between it & sump. The "nipples" on the pick up are approx 2mm high & with the 1.9 sump fitted I had a 3.5mm thickness left on the compressed plasticine.

 

 

I then removed the tin sump & stiffener plate before putting a fresh lump of pasticine on & repeating the process with the GTI-6 sump.

 

 

The clearence is approx 5mm but I figured that with the baffle plates it would keep the oil level at a suitable height & maybe even a better amount of oil around the pick up in high surge instances.

 

So I fitted the sump & left it overnight for the sealant to cure;

 

 

Time to spin the engine over & prepare to fit the top end.

 

Graham.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

So, with the bottom end build completed I spun the engine over on the stand & cleaned the block surface ready for fitting the new (Motaquip) head gasket but before doing this had the idea to find my true tdc for #1 cylinder to make timing the cam quicker & easier with external marks on the block.

 

 

 

 

I then gave the block & head mating surfaces another clean with solvent & fitted the head following the Autodata tightening method for the cylinder head bolts (40lbft, 15lbft & 300' (3 x 100'in stages)) I then put a standard cam pulley on to set the cam in the correct position in relation to the crank for fitting the timing belt.

 

 

I reset the vernier pulley to 0' matching the original one & fit it to the cam before putting the cambelt on, which highlighted another litle point that needed fixing.

 

 

The new water pump has part of the timing cover built in which was in the way for moving the tensioner cam so I removed the tensioner & trimmed it back so it cleared.

 

 

With the belt fitted & tensioned I set about timing the cam in properly.

 

 

I checked it several times & then asked a mate to come round & check it again.

 

Once that was all set I made more marks externally so I could easily peg it all in place ready for cambelt changes etc.

 

With everything set I realised I'd forgotten to fit the cam covers so I locked everything in place & set around fitting them.

 

The new water pump has a good part of the timing belt edge fitted, to the point where you can't fit the standard covers without trimming them to fit so I did this & removed the cam pulley to fit the metal plate behind the pulley.

 

Then with everything back in place the engine was removed from the stand & I put the 2.0 hdi engine waiting to go into my 306 on there before taking the engine crane I'd borrowed back to my mates for him to remove the engine from his Mk1 Golf.

 

All I've got left to do now is check & reset as required the valve clearances before its ready to fit.

 

Graham.

[Anthony 1,003]

That looks like an XU9J4 / XU7JP4 waterpump G, hence it fouls the cambelt tensioner and the 8v plastic cambelt covers (as on the 16v engines the waterpump casting forms part of the cambelt cover)

 

Don't you need to set the valve clearance before doing the cam timing btw, assuming you've done it using the lift @ TDC method?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

The pump is one I bought fom Goliath which I understood to be for an 8v but its done now so no worries.

 

Don't you need to set the valve clearance before doing the cam timing btw, assuming you've done it using the lift @ TDC method?

I used the full lift @ 108ATDC method for timing my cam.

 

There are valve shims in there just I haven't checked the gaps yet but that shouldn't change the timing just the amount the valve opens.

 

Graham.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Progress at last!!

 

Due to the very wintery weather the previous few weeks since the engine was finished everything came to an abrupt stop until I had;

• A: a day or two with suitable weather when I wasn't working.
  
• B: Found someone who could could come here to do said welding on th afore mentioned day.
  

The repair plate is made & ready to fit bar final shaping as it is being welded in.

 

 

It's sprayed with weld thru primer so it has some protection straight from welding although I intend to go over it with Hammerite within hours of it getting done anyway.

 

With the big freeze gone for now & all snow melted away I went to my mates engineering firm last Friday & noticing his welding gear I asked if he did onsite welding.

 

He'll be here around 10 am tomorrow to get things progressed nearer to completion.

 

Graham.