Colourblind Person Trying To Do The Wiring!

[TaffyTim 6]

Ive read the old threads as im getting the clicking problem and have found that my problem is most probably to do with the wire from the multiplug by the stering column to the starter motor itself(46b if my memory serves me correctly).

 

I had a quick look and i couldnt see a multiplug where the loom enters the engine bay and also my loom is all covered in cable tidy plastic stuff.

 

Anyway to get to the point, which wire is the one that i should be worried about is it the one that has a spade connector on the end of it or the one thats bolter to the starter motor?

 

Also when looking at my earths I dont seem to have an earth strap that goes from the gearbox direct to the chassis. The earths in question seem to go from the Starter Motor to the Gearbox then theres a wire to the negative on the battery, which then has a lead off to the chassis. Should I be worried about this?

[smithy 1]

If you are getting just clicking from starter when turning key it suggests to me the small signal cable you refer to is working ok as the solenoid is getting power from said cable.

I would be more inclined to think either poor earth or starter motor causing the problem.

The earth on mine is from battery to gearbox then another the body,give it a good clean the earth on top of box can cause problems if corroded.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

It is the spade connector on the solenoid that if it doesn't have enough power will give the clicking. The easiest test is to just put a wire direct from the +ve to the solenoid spade connector and see what happens. If it turns over/starts then it's that wire causing the problem probably due to voltage drop.

[TaffyTim 6]

Thanks C_W thats some good clear instructions. I'd read about doing that on other posts but wasn't really sure where to put the wire.

 

Ta muchly

[TaffyTim 6]

It was a good day on sunday so i tried to sort this issue out but ran into some problems, I'd appreciate some help:

 

1. The wire from the starter was not as easy to locate as i thought. I traced it into the loom then when inside the footwell i couldnt work out which of the 2 multiplugs it should be going into, especially as the wire coming out of both no1 positions wasnt the same colour as the wire going onto the starter which of these should it be?:

 

 

2. The wiring from the ignition barrel is a mess. My main concern is that on a multiplug that has the power wire for the immobiliser there is another cable taped to it that is not making contact that seems to be doing nothing. I will add that the immobiliser works but the alarm doesnt and i dont need it to (unless you are my insurer then the alarm works perfectly!). Should i just ignore this wire?

 

 

3. The wire that goes from my alternator to the starter motor is exposed and looks like it has melted its insulation away, will this have an affect on the starting? Whats happened to it to get like this?

 

 

[welshpug 1,666]

eek! I'd certainly get that cable replaced on the alternator, it wont be helping the carge going to the battery.

 

starter wire is the blue one :lol looks like pin 4 of that plug in the first picture.

 

unsure on the ignition wires, been a while since i've had that apart on a 205.

[large 33]

I don't want to sound alarmist but I would not reconnect your battery until you have found the problem with your alternator wiring, as you could very well burn your car out!

 

That damage has been caused by too much current flowing down the cable. This could well be a result of a short to earth. This could in turn be the cause of your clicking as if you have got a short you would be dropping the battery voltage right down.

 

First thing is to replace the cable running from the alternator to the battery ( I think it runs via the starter motor as well). Also have you got a multi meter? What voltage is on your battery.

 

 

 

 

WP I thought the starter motor wire would be the thick blue one (looks like pin nine). But was not 100%. Could some one confirm.

Edited February 3, 2011 by large

[rallysteve 22]

Just to confirm, as i have all my wiring currently layed out in the living room. If that first picture is of the plugs located in the driver's footwell area, then the wire from the ignition to the starter motor will be the thick blue wire which I believe is pin 9 on the larger of the two connectors.

 

Steve

[TaffyTim 6]

Thanks both for the pin number, 9 it is then.

 

I've snipped out the alternator cable and been to a few motor shops and a couple of independent garages to see if they have a length of cable to replace it. I've had no luck, the garages said they dont do that anymore as its normally a case of get a new bit of loom from the dealer rather than make one up. One of the motor shops even tried to sell me a small roll of 27 amp wire, now I'm no auto-electrician but even i could work out that wouldn't quite work.

 

I havent got a multi meter so I think i should get one and do as you suggest large as my MOT garage mechanic sounded as alarmed as you when he saw the cable. When you say a shot to earth do you mean the cable could have touched something metal?

[smithy 1]

Should be able to get the cable and crimps from a decent factor of electrical suppliers,then a new battery terminal from a factors also.

 

If you are still struggling for cable after weekend let me know as I am back on days next week so can get some decent cable with heavy duty railway spec insulation and stick some in the post.

 

As for the damage to cable it could have been caused by a short down to earth which is quite possible given the lack of space on these things,or a loose connection causing high resistance.

If it was due to over charging I would expect things like bulbs to blow before cable burns.

 

Best thing is to change cable and secure everything I would also have a check of main earths on body/gearbox and then check out the alternator output.

Edited February 3, 2011 by smithy

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

Probs got one, I'm going bespoke loom on my track car.

 

Ill have a look in the garage tonight.

[TaffyTim 6]

thanks guys but I think I've got one coming from sorrentopete. If that falls through i might call on your generosity again but dont trouble yourselves for now.

[TaffyTim 6]

My woes continue:

 

I popped on the replacement cable from alt to starter to positiive in yesterday and now the car is taking 20 seconds of starter motor cranking time to finally fire up then the idle is really rough.

 

It normally fires up very quickly first time and ticks over at a constant 900 rpm so i've dislodged something.

I gave a little wiggle to most of the wires I was close to with no sucsess. I also go quite a shoch when I wiggled the king lead (going from coil to centre of distributor cap)

 

Any ideas what i've done to it?

[jeremy 71]

have you put the lead to the air flow meter back on correctly. I did this once and wasted loads of time!

[large 33]

As above.

[TaffyTim 6]

I didnt disconnect it but i'll double check this when I tinker next. Ta.

[jackherer 543]

I also go quite a shoch when I wiggled the king lead (going from coil to centre of distributor cap)

 

That suggests the current found it easier to find ground via you than the distributor cap, rotor arm, leads and spark plugs so one of those parts probably has high resistance. It happened to me yesterday actually and the problem was a rusty king lead terminal where it went onto the coil.

[TaffyTim 6]

have you put the lead to the air flow meter back on correctly. I did this once and wasted loads of time!

 

 

OK I tried this out when i thought the battery was coming to the end of its charge (lots of cranking time with no driving time to recharge) but i think ive killed something in testing it.

Before doing so I've bought a new earthstrap to go from the gearbox to the body (there wasbt one before) so my earth should now be good.

 

 

Heres whats happened now:

I turned the engine over a few days ago and it stared after about 10 seconds of cranking time and ran rough.

I Disconnected the AFM lead fully, gave it a bit of a clean with a wire brush then a squirt of wd40 pushed it back on and got the same result lots of cranking then rough running.

To check the AFM plug was making connection I then decided to pull it off, thinking if it wasnt connected nothing would change.

When I pulled the lead off the engine died within a couple of seconds, oh good I thought now i can rule that out.

I reconnected the plug and tried to turn it over and I got nothing!

Thinking it was out of charge I whipped the battery out thinking it might be empty and Ive given it a charge.

Meanwhile Ive got a new dizzy cap and arm fittied to see if this will help with jackheres point of high resistance.

So all is back on the car but I'm getting the same result when i try to turn her over. Nothing.

 

Edit.

 

Its started after a couple of push starts and then it started off the key after that

 

I still got a shock when I put my hand near the king lead though so it looks like something is not right.

 

I don know what to do with it now. Should I just get a new slimline starter? Could this alone fix the shocks?

Edited March 8, 2011 by TaffyTim

[smithy 1]

if the engine is cranking over fine then fitting slim starter will not make a difference but if it is slow turning then it may well cure the cranking issue.

 

Personally i say you need a new king lead if you are getting a shock off it sounds like breaking down,if you get someone to crank it when pitch black outside you may well see the lead giving off some blue sparks.

[AndyJ 1]

Second for replacing the HT leads - you shouldnt be getting a shock off it if it's all in good nick.

 

I'd check the wiring to the coolant temp sender as well - the starting issue sounds like exactly what I had when the wire to the sensor got dislodged after rummaging in the loom.

[TaffyTim 6]

if the engine is cranking over fine then fitting slim starter will not make a difference but if it is slow turning then it may well cure the cranking issue.

 

Personally i say you need a new king lead if you are getting a shock off it sounds like breaking down,if you get someone to crank it when pitch black outside you may well see the lead giving off some blue sparks.

 

 

I checked the king lead and there was a small break in the insulation that goes over the distributor connector. Ive put insulation tape over this until i get in contact with Magnecore and changed the spark plugs and so far so good. No more shocks when i put my hand near it and the engine is running smooth again.

 

I'm just hoping it continues and everything else Ive done will sort the original starting issues. Time will tell on that point.

 

Thanks for everyones help thus far.

[TaffyTim 6]

Right I'm back to where I started.

 

* Ive replaced the alternator which now works without a hint of dashboard warning even at full load (dare I speak too soon?)

* Ive replaced the +ve wiring to the starter and alternator (Im keeping an eye on it to ensure it doesn't go bad again)

* Ive placed new earths on the car

* Ive put on a new dizzy cap and arm and sorted out the king lead

 

Yesterday was the first day that i had a chance to start her up after recharging the battery.

 

First of all I had no response from the car when turning the key, no clicking of the starter motor, not even the fuel pump priming. I tried this 4 times letting the immobiliser reset itself each time.

Then i gave a good old wiggle to all of the immobiliser multiplugs and it fired up on the next turn of the key.

It fired up on the next 3 attempts and drove well around the block.

I then left it until the evening and it fired up first time, I took it for a spin where it didn't miss a beat but then it failed to start again after stopping for a while. Same as before no clicking starter motor or priming pump noises.

Another good wiggle of the immobiliser multiplugs and it fired up.

 

 

What options do i have to resolve this as it looks to me as if the wiring for the immobiliser is at fault. Before the car was off the road I didnt have any starting issues, but hey ho I suppose that is irrelevant now.

[TaffyTim 6]

I thought I'd have a good look at the wiring of the immobiliser today and fond this which looked innocent enough:

 

 

 

 

 

.. But on closer inspection the 2 wires had melted where they crossed, fused to each other with the melted insulation and both had exposed the inner wire:

 

 

 

The numbered wires on the other side of the plug to these two white wires were 1 and 1C.

 

Needless to say I've taped these exposures up and separated them from crossing at that point.

 

I'm feeling as if i have found the route of my problem as the engine has started on the key each time since. Lets hope so eh!

 

The numbered wires on the other side of the plug to these two white wires were 1 and 1C.

[TaffyTim 6]

Ive had problems starting it again today, why did i think the fix would be that easy?

 

Right, back to the multiplugs and wire 46b I go.

[TaffyTim 6]

new wire soldered in and its started on every turn of the key since. So much so I've even put all of my dash back together

 

Ta for all who helped.