In Need Of Help With My Suspension Issues On Standard Setup

[Weser 30]

Im totally prepared to admit I am a complete novice when it comes to suspension. I understand a little of how it works and what its there for but thats it. I am need of a little bit of help.

 

A little bit of history: I brought a 1.9gti from a guy that had had it in storage of 8years. It has 24,000 miles on it I have a little history and I believe it is genuine as other little bits suggest that it is. For example it had an original factory fit tyre on and has weird wiper arms with plastic clips for the blades. Anyway I pretty sure it is running standard suspension.

 

Now I have had this for two years but only now have I been able to afford to run it and use it. I have had a number of little issues with it recently but now it seems to be running well. However when driving it it seems to have body roll round corners. It seems to roll more than my cti. It doesnt seem to understeer, just roll. I thought it would be a lot flatter round corners even with standard suspension!

 

So my question is how do I improve it? Obviously I am going to have to upgrade. I am looking at putting on 309 wishbones for a bit of camber. When using these can i use the standard drive shafts or do I have to use the 309 shafts I have had a search but cannot seem to find a definate answer. Also going to upgrade shocks and spings but have no idea what are the best ones to use. I dont want to put coil overs on! I also want to know whether it is worth lowering the car. Does this improve handling or is it just to make the car look good?

 

Any info would be appreciated. Please bear in mind that I have done some searching and I am still having to ask these questions due to lack of knowledge.

[jord294 89]

personally, i was very, very happy with 309 wishbones and 309 driveshafts, along with a 309 gti rear beam

 

i used bilstein b4 front struts and -30mm apex springs. the beam i rebuilt myself, and was lowered to match the front of the car. i fitted genuine mounting bushes too

 

i decent set of tyres, and i can confidently say, you'd be very pleased with the improved handling

[Weser 30]

personally, i was very, very happy with 309 wishbones and 309 driveshafts, along with a 309 gti rear beam

 

i used bilstein b4 front struts and -30mm apex springs. the beam i rebuilt myself, and was lowered to match the front of the car. i fitted genuine mounting bushes too

 

i decent set of tyres, and i can confidently say, you'd be very pleased with the improved handling

 

 

Great thats the sort of reply I was looking for! Thanks!

 

What rating are the springs? As for the ream beam is it nessecary to upgrade or can I stick with the 205 one? What about the wishbone bushes is it worth upgrading these too?

[maturin23 10]

Sounds to me is that what your experiencing is worn suspension - so don't assume you have to upgrade from OEM to have a decent set up.

 

I think these cars are best for road use when they are kept relatively standard - I'd have thought with a 24k mile car you'd be wise not to start bolting on 309 bits.

 

I fitted a 309 beam 'by mistake' - bought a refurbished beam and it wasn't until I was fitting it that I realised it was wider than the old one. I think the car is less tail-happy and less adjustable with the wider beam - not as fun as it was. I'm running with a 30mm drop front and rear with GTI6 front shocks and OEM rears - nicely compliant and supple ride.

[Stevo309 0]

If you just want to reduce bodyroll then there's no need to be adding camber by installing 309 wishbones. A bit more camber will help with turn-in but not bodyroll IMO. There's quicker and easier ways to make it stiffer. Lowering the car around 30mm is an accepted improvement by lowering the centre of gravity without compromising the handling and improves the looks a little.

 

On my own standard 205 i have Bilstein B4 front dampers, Eibach 30mm lowering springs and the back end uses standard 306 shocks. Although at the back the standard 205 shocks are actually very good. This is a very useable road setup with slightly firmer ride and less body roll but good on the back roads over bumps etc.

 

It's possible to put stiffer springs on, thicker ARBs and torsion bars and lower further and using coilovers would achieve both but at the cost of ride comfort probably.

[jord294 89]

Great thats the sort of reply I was looking for! Thanks!

 

What rating are the springs? As for the ream beam is it nessecary to upgrade or can I stick with the 205 one? What about the wishbone bushes is it worth upgrading these too?

 

personally don't see the point of using 309 parts up front and keeping the narrower rear end. that's why i'd go all 309. or keep it the std 205 set up

 

genuine peugeot bushes and mounts last a hell of a lot longer than cheaper versions.

 

as stevo309 says eibach are good springs, pricey, but have a good reputation

 

rear shocks from main dealer are 5206.te

[McDude 33]

Like Maturin23 said - it sounds like worn suspension and possibly old plasticised tyres.

 

Get some fresh rubber on there first of all and then think what to do with the suspension. If I had a car with only 24K on the clock I'd be keepingit standard and there's nothing wrong with that. If you did want to go down the upgrade route then there is loads on here about possible upgrades, but going to 309 wishbones is at the more extreme end and there are plenty of options available before you do something as major as that.

[Baz 421]

personally don't see the point of using 309 parts up front and keeping the narrower rear end. that's why i'd go all 309. or keep it the std 205 set up

 

Then you're missing the point completely then.

[Weser 30]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I would love to keep it standard. But I need it to handle well. Don't get me wrong I'm not ragging the nutts off it on the road. Its just is not handling anywhere near as well as I would have suspected.

 

I think I will start by giving the suspension a good look over with the aim to replace any worn parts with standard items to begin with. Then at least I will know what it should be like as standard before upgrading if its not right for me. However the two times it has been MOT'd nothing has been picked up on! Dont worry guys I have replaced the tyres they were well perished from not being used. Out of interest what tyres do people think are the best?

 

Dont get me wrong the car is nice and is probably a genuine 24K however some muppet has crashed it, a front end smash and where it would of had the full optional body kit, it now only has the side skirts! It has been repaired to a high standard and has had a full respray but the person that sprayed it got overspray all over the place under the bonnet and hasn't used compound enough to get rid of imperfections. Also it has got a non genuine bonnet. So all this has left me with loads of little jobs to do to get it perfect.

 

Luckily I didn't pay much for it. But the distributor went and has cost me a bit.

[Baz 421]

Out of interest what tyres do people think are the best?

 

Michelin Pilot Exalto 2's.

[Anthony 1,002]

Assuming your CTi is standard, the GTi *should* roll less - it has stiffer springs, less weight, and thicker rear torsion/anti-roll bars

 

Worth checking that it's not something as simple as the bolts holding the rear ARB endplates on have come out / snapped - it happens, and with no ARB in effect and standard torsion bars, it'll roll around like a fish out of water. Same is true if it has had a base model rear beam fitted for some reason, although that seems less likely on a 24k mile car, assuming it's genuine.

 

I'd agree with what others have said though - make sure what you have already is working properly before assuming that it needs uprating/improving. 205 GTi's are fairly softly sprung compared to some cars, but they feel taut and don't roll excessively (IMO) as standard, and should feel a joy to drive - I, like many I suspect, sometimes forget just how good a standard car in fine fettle is

[McDude 33]

Michelin Pilot Exalto 2's.

seconded

[Weser 30]

I rekon it has the correct rear bear as it has got the 1.9 hubs on.

 

I will check it all over and get the standard setup working well before I make a decision on upgrading.

 

Thanks guys.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

For road go for the bilsteins up front and eibach 7001? i think they are. with maybe a 21-23mm arb at the rear. Best value for ££ improvement. If lowering the rear, double check the bumpstops arnt bottoming out with relatively little suspension movement. On top of that bolt check everything and make sure nothing is wrong before replacing parts.

[maturin23 10]

For road go for the bilsteins up front and eibach 7001? i think they are. with maybe a 21-23mm arb at the rear. Best value for ££ improvement. If lowering the rear, double check the bumpstops arnt bottoming out with relatively little suspension movement. On top of that bolt check everything and make sure nothing is wrong before replacing parts.

 

Can you state this is categorically 'an improvement' over standard though? I think a mildly lowered OEM setup is still spot-on for UK roads and anything else I've been in hasn't convinced me otherwise.

 

The OP clearly states he's inexperienced, I think he's edging towards doing the correct thing which is seeing how a refreshed standard setup works.

 

This car in its standard form is still held up as being a paradigm of FWD road car handling.

 

The OP really should drive it as Pug intended, then and only then should his decisions be made to 'improve' this based on his personal preferences.

[kyepan 291]

i was in a similar situation to you, spent a truck load of money and ended up less than happy...

 

take some time to read my sticky post at the top of the suspension section.

 

here

 

I got there in the end though.

 

happy reading, and come back when you've had time to digest that lot.

 

Cheers

 

J

[Batfink 201]

Can you state this is categorically 'an improvement' over standard though? I think a mildly lowered OEM setup is still spot-on for UK roads and anything else I've been in hasn't convinced me otherwise.

 

The OP clearly states he's inexperienced, I think he's edging towards doing the correct thing which is seeing how a refreshed standard setup works.

 

This car in its standard form is still held up as being a paradigm of FWD road car handling.

 

The OP really should drive it as Pug intended, then and only then should his decisions be made to 'improve' this based on his personal preferences.

 

Bilstein do the B4 dampers which are OE spec, but gas filled.. Its what I have built my 205 with combined with Eibach springs.

[Stevo309 0]

I bought my 205 about 4 months ago and although it was a nearly standard car the handling was terrible, it felt nervous, wobbily and vague. Bearing in mind this is intended as a "classic restoration" project i really wanted to keep mods to a minimum and getting it handling as Peugeot intended. I know that a fresh standard car for road use is even by todays standards a superb drive.

 

My car has done a lot more miles than yours and some of the parts i'm about to list have been changed only so i know where i stand but this is what i ended up with:

 

Brand new steering rack and track rod ends (Non-PAS)

Bilstein B4 dampers (Already on the car when i got it)

Eibach -30mm springs

New OEM top mount sets

New OEM ARB bushes

New OEM wishbone bushes

 

Fully rebuilt rear beam

Solid beam mounts

New OEM 306 gti shocks.

 

The car sits about 30mm lower than standard and handling for a road car is superb, feedback is amazing, crisp sharp turn in, loads of grip, it rides the bumps very well, feels firm but not harsh and doesn't bounce around. You feel incredibly connected to the car all the time. Driving it hard really makes you grin. My only further mod to this will be a tighter steering ratio.

 

I really don't see the point of changing ARBs, torsion bars, wider rear beams, different front wishbones etc for an exclusive road car. You won't be dissapointed at all with a good standard setup. Peugeot spent many millions developing this platform no doubt and they know how to make a car handle. If it doesn't feel right it probably isn't.

 

I may be re-iterating what has been said above but i am basing my comments on recent experience and my decisions have come following very good advice from others here.

[tomcolinjones 26]

you dont need to lower it to get it to handle as it 'should'

price it up, i would go for standard dampers all round for just road use. unless you wanted something more. then go for bilsteins with the eibach's.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

if you put stiffer springs on the front without fitting either TBs or ARB at the rear you will ruin the balance of the car. So yeh you can either go new standard parts or if you want to modify it then doing something at the rear is a must.

 

standard is probably best for road use, but modifying is more fun!

 

also, I had my 205 on the road with a stiff front end, 309 wishbones etc.. it was great! the front end pointed exactly where I wanted. Got it on track and it was a boring understeer monster. the 25mm rear arb had snapped, but on the road it still felt good, you should never be right at that limit on the road. Another 25mm arb made the car brilliant on the track and feel the same on the road, ok so maybe a little better around roundabouts but you get the idea.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Henry 1.9GTi

[2052006 10]

if you put stiffer springs on the front without fitting either TBs or ARB at the rear you will ruin the balance of the car.

 

Agreed. I hadn't quite grasped the fundamentals of this when I started fiddling with my suspension. I started off with SBC phase one which comprised their own revalved Bilstein front struts (similar to Group N maybe, can't remember?), SBC springs (approx 25-30mm lower) and stiffer Bilstein rear dampers (again, maybe Group N??). Plus rear lowered to match. Whilst it was ok on the road at normal speeds, when pushed or used on track it didn't feel like it should - understeery and not very agile.

 

This immediately changed when I fitted a bigger rear ARB, and further helped with bigger T/Bs and ZX arms (basically SBC phase 2).

 

Certainly in my experience, stiffening the rear was vital to getting the car back to handling like a 205 again.

[kyepan 291]

This immediately changed when I fitted a bigger rear ARB, and further helped with bigger T/Bs and ZX arms (basically SBC phase 2).

 

Certainly in my experience, stiffening the rear was vital to getting the car back to handling like a 205 again.

 

 

This is what i had to do too..

 

so basically, doing the easy bit (front shocks and springs), naffs up the front rear handling balance.... then you have to spend twice as much on the rear to get the balance back.

 

that's the simplest and best advice I can give.

 

keep the relative front and rear spring rates even by either spending lots of wonga, or refreshing the standard set up.

 

 

cheers

 

J

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Just get a fat rear roll bar!

[Baz 421]

you dont need to lower it to get it to handle as it 'should'

 

Agreed, in early '08 i bought and ran a 1.6 totally standard for competition regs, it had new OE dampers all round, the beam mounts and all the bushes etc religiously replaced, i was astounded by how well it handled, and so forgiving at the limit.

 

Really pointed out the difference between a bad or mediocre car and a truly good one, and got me hooked again!

[Batfink 201]

Just get a fat rear roll bar!

 

really it should be the torsion bars as these are the rear springs. I always feel that the anti roll bar upgrade is a cheap option for those unwilling to buy the torsion bars..