Whats The Requirements To Hit 180-190bhp (mi16)

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

I'm going to be building the motor over the winter, whats required to hit my target?

 

I presently have a bike (mikuni) carb conversion that i would like to keep if at all possible.

 

Overall it must be super reliable ie bombproof as its planned to do lots of trackdays and I dont want to waste my time on rebuilds, the idea is to build it right first time.

 

 

Whats your reccomendations?

 

Thanks

Stu

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

1x mi16 1.9

1x set of ARP rod bolts

1x Set of throttle bodies/carbs

1x Maniflow or similar design exhaust manifold

1x Pair Cat Cams #4900528

 

Bingo, at least 190 horses - possibly more like 200 depending upon who's rolling road numbers you believe.

 

While it's not contributing to the power, I would suggest you also add

1x Complete set of rebuild parts for engine, OEM spec, nothing fancy - but make sure you rebuild it properly (rings, hg, shells, oil pump, water pump, followers, gasket/seal set, etc)

1x PTS spec, or decent copy of, sump baffle plate

 

 

My original thread :-

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=81038&hl=

Edited October 3, 2010 by brumster

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

Thanks for the info.

 

Would using the std medusa mi16 manifold hold it back that much?

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

If you want super reliability then ditch the carbs and get some bodies with decent management such as omex 600, make sure you take it to someone reputable to get it mapped! Headwork, cams and a decent manifold should certainly get you to around 190 mark. As above some arp rod bolts would be an idea along with lightened and balanced bottom end and a baffled sump!

[boombang 2]

What management are you running, and is your inlet setup actually any good?

 

I've seen over 170bhp on a reprofiled cam, head skim, "grp N" PTS exhaust and Golf throttle body (the later mod mainly helps part throttle driveability and economy). Very strong power curve too.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Would using the std medusa mi16 manifold hold it back that much?

 

If I remember rightly (ie. I've got it the right way round), the old mi16 steel manifold isn't too bad but the cast one is the one you want to stay away from. Whether it would make 190 horses on either, though, I wouldn't like to say. I would suggest not - you probably need to ditch it; my understanding is the manifold is a key win-win area. Unfortunately I never tried it, I went straight for the 'proper job' on the advice of Longman, who sold me the bits.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Headwork...[snip].....should certainly get you to around 190 mark.

 

Not meaning to be overly argumentative, but I would disagree with that. No headwork needed to see the right side of 190 horses. By headwork, I assume you mean porting, flowing, valve work and so forth - if you just mean a good rebuild, I apologise.

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

If I'm honest I dont really have a clue if my inlet setup is any good, its a bike carb setup from I guess a big Jap plastic rocket (mikuni carbs), Its all been installed by Bogg bros,

 

http://www.boggbros.co.uk/gallery.html

 

As for management its kinda open book so to speak, at the minute I have a bare rolling shell waiting for a cage and an engine in bits

 

After selling my Impreza track car this was supposed to be a relatively low budget excercise...............!

[Baz 421]

Agreed with brumster, start with a healthy engine and add management, TB's, a decent exhaust manifold & even a cheap PeterT inlet cam should bag you around that figure, my old one was essentially just this, standard healthy(ish, bar being a little down on compression) Mi engine, bodies, management and a PeterT stage one inlet cam, circa 190bhp.

 

My current one has 181bhp from just a rebuilt Mi on bodies & emerald, i plan to add a stage 2 PeterT inlet cam to it soon and hope for around 200, as I'd expect 200bhp should be easily obtainable with a slightly more aggressive cam profile.

 

And i'm not talking bogus RR-claims too, i only ever bother with decent Dyno-Dynamics rolling roads, and all the figures above were measured on the same set of rollers.

[welshpug 1,661]

Sarty's increased capacity MI16 engine ran circa 240 bhp and 190 lbft from an effectively standard head, no port work just valve + seat cutting.

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Not meaning to be overly argumentative, but I would disagree with that. No headwork needed to see the right side of 190 horses. By headwork, I assume you mean porting, flowing, valve work and so forth - if you just mean a good rebuild, I apologise.

 

 

Sorry, i should have been more specific, i meant a rebuild, skim, 3 angle seats. Im well aware the standard head flows well enough for that sort of figure.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

All good pointers really, The 200bhp is nice and easy to optain, anything above 210bhp gets slightly more expensive.

If the inlet is like the 8v one's with different length runner's I cannot see that helping matters at all so either a good inlet or swap over to T/B's or normal carb's,

But we say cheap but it's still a few quid.

[craig_007 1]

I've got a bogg MI16 inlet manifold and I'm certain the runners are the same size, The problem for me is trying to get trumpets in under the bonnet.

 

To retain a 390mm inlet tract I require 120mm trumpets, Now to get these in without them sticking through the bonnet the trumpets require a slight (approx 15-20 degree angle) and this just about allows them to sit behind the grill.

 

I have no idea if this affects air intake or not ! It seems a little on the rough side to me

[Baz 421]

To do it ideally you need a custom inlet manifold...

[petert 588]

It's certainly easy to achieve with throttle bodies but I'd say 180hp is at the limit of the standard manifold and a simple cam swap. The page below shows a relatively standard engine (other than CR and cam) making just shy of 180hp. I say that because a standard GTi180 pulls the same figure.

 

http://www.taylor-eng.com/ecu/motronic_intro.htm

 

With std. inlet, after market management, same cam, 11.25:1 (83.50mm pistons) and standard head you can hit 102-105kW at the wheels.

 

Certainly don't go chasing power with cams. Dr Sarty's (again with same cams as above) makes around 200hp (149kW) at the wheels from memory. You don't need a lot of lift/duration to make impressive hp.

 

I've been going to add a recipe page of case studies to my site for some time.

Edited October 5, 2010 by petert

[tri_longer 25]

Link doesn't work Peter

[DRTDVL 4 1 Cars]

http://www.taylor-eng.com/ecu/motronic_intro.html

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

I'm getting around 185bhp with an 1.9 Mi16 - a pair of 262 cams, 3 angle seats, GTI-6 inlet and Emerald management.

[All Praise The GTI 3]

quote:I'm getting around 185bhp with an 1.9 Mi16 - a pair of 262 cams, 3 angle seats, GTI-6 inlet and Emerald management

now im really wondering why my 205 gti6 on satchell bodies,petert inlet regrind and emerald mapped at emerald only made 182...??

[welshpug 1,661]

how much torque though?

[All Praise The GTI 3]

150lbft

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

Mine was done at Emerald too.

145lb ft of torque.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

That is low, I would be checking things really

[All Praise The GTI 3]

well did a compression test getting between 190-210 across the cylinders, only thing i can think of is that the cam was fitted as standard i believe. it made peak power bhp at 7k and torque at 5.5k. petert said if i wanted more low down advance it abit but im not sure how to do that. only other thing is the mapping.

[welshpug 1,661]

that's most likely it (cam timing) it will affect the mapping required slightly too.