Getting Annoyed With Myself

[danpug 1]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=92306&hl=

[Cameron 16]

Difference of opinions here, and not wishing to start another argument on the subject I won't comment on the above.. I tackled it by fitting the sump and oil pump from the GTi6 engine, and fitting the RS (GTi6) head as it has a smaller oil capacity and an extra drain hole.

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

I have just fitted a sump baffle and an uprated oil pump spring and that has helped tremendously before I was getting bad oil surge. If you are using an mi16 on a track I would recommend a closer ratio box.

[Richy_cti 0]

i love the iead of the standard 8v engine with carbs on there that what i will be looking at over the winter after the body work as been finished off,

 

it the feel of the car, my v6 is so different too smoth not wild enought thats why i will be sticking to the 8v in the cti.

[Bigtimmy 1]

Well so far it's looking like to 8v will be coming out after the 15th October and I'll be giving it some serious loving over the winter.

 

I just love the 8v's revviness and I think reading between the lines on whats been written here, that although I'd not be disappointed with a 6 conversion I feel the car would lose some of it's character and willingness to rev. And if I can reach somewhere around 160 - 170bhp for my £1.5k I'd be a happy bunny and that would give me all I needed to make next seasons track days an even bigger giggle.

 

It's a long term thing with me, I'm not all about getting the most power from the biggest engine you can shoehorn into the engine bay, I'm loving getting back to basics with it all, and that to me involves experimenting. Hey you only get one shot at life so I'm making the most of it!!

 

The hybrid XU7 build may well be something to ponder once the 8v is up and running, but I think for now it's 8 valves all the way for me.

 

Right, now for some research on what works and what doesn't!!

 

Thanks heaps for your help guys, It's nice to be part of a forum that helps rather than hinders

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

I wouldn't poo-poo mi16's straight off, to be honest. You've got just as much chance of finding a ragged, knackered gti6 as much as an alloy mi16 - so really, just finding a *decent* one should be of prime concern. The oil pressure bollocks is just something perpetuated over years of internet forums and lack of understanding, possibly worsened by multiple contributing factors. Build it right and there are no issues with them, as many on here will contest to (me included). Don't get me wrong, a gti6 is likely more plentiful and will have better management - but if a corking mi16 comes your way for the right money, I wouldn't dismiss it purely on that basis.

 

There's also noubt wrong with an S16, of course

[Cameron 16]

Yeah as the recent poll will tell you many people (including me) still really rate the Mi16 over the GTi6.

 

I'm looking forward to see what you can do with the 8V, with everyone deciding to do engine conversions nowadays it's pretty refreshing for someone to tune the original engine.

[James_m 0]

For as many people who say mi16's don't surge there is just as many who do, perhaps its an engine to engine thing, nobody actually knows, but for any car that will spend time on track(especially left handers) an mi16 is just not worth the risk in my opinion

[welshpug 1,657]

my MI16 went rattle on a l.h bend....

 

which is amusing as the oil pump is where all the oil would go

Edited September 23, 2010 by welshpug

[danpug 1]

None of my mi16's surged but in my experience a gti6 lump will be quicker point to point (both types of engine on the same gearbox).

[Cameron 16]

I have a hunch that quite a lot of people blame big end failures on oil surge when it wasn't actually the cause, and that's how it's been blown out of proportion. Mi's are hard on their bearings due to the long stroke and relatively short rods, and I bet a large amount of the "surged" engines were on their last legs anyway - having been thrashed for the majority of their lives or just coming to the end of their service life. As soon as an Mi gets a bearing knock the instant assumption is oil surge, when it's probably more down to it being thrashed mercilessly since being put in a 205.

 

My mate managed to kill one of these engines just driving in a straight line actually! Admittedly he was driving at the speed limit (of the car) for a good few minutes before slowing down to hear a pretty heavy rattle, but it shows how prolonged high revs can kill them pretty quick.

[RossD 44]

My current idea (Daydreaming at work) is getting the new 1.6 turbo engine (From the 207, 308, Mini etc) into a 205. Aftermarket ECU is a given, but easily doable I would have thought.

I'm keeping an eye out on ebay at the moment

[welshpug 1,657]

its not a particularly simple engine at all I'm afraid, Direct injection, variable valve lift, variable valve timing, you'd need a pretty expensive ECU to control all that

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...pic=123028&

Edited September 24, 2010 by welshpug

[RossD 44]

I know all of that - Nothing that can't be overcome with a bit of thought

Direct injection isn't a problem for the majority of ECU's that can do sequential injection, most will do VVT and I'm not 100% certain if all models actually have variable lift.... More research required.

 

Edit: According to servicebox, the EP6DT in the 207 (at least) has conventional valve gear apart from the VVT, it's the N/A engines that have the fancy valve black magic and trickery.

Edited September 24, 2010 by RossD

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Turbocharging a 1600 XU works pretty well though

[Bigtimmy 1]

So thats it 8v all the way.

 

I've done some reading from the Puma Racing website, and I noticed whilst searching this site that he used to be a member on here but was banned, what was the reason? It was a hard slog of a read too with a stonking hangover after a night out after Lifebot practice, but I had coffee and tabs to keep me going!

 

I'm sure that you've all read his 205 8v tuning guide, which all seems to make reasonable sense to me, so I won't bore you with the details.

 

My build is shaping up like this at the moment.

 

8v lump on twin 45's with a big valve head, race or rally cam, head skim to raise the cr and some mappable ignition, thus doing away with the dizzy and associated unreliability of tuning the ignition.

 

I'll probably go with a fuel / ignition ecu then if I add tb's at a later date I'm already half way there and I've spent the money on management already.

 

Now thats all fine and dandy for the top end, but do I need to do anything to the bottom end, is it worth doing anything to the bottom end, bearing in mind it was rebuilt only 1000 miles ago? Is it worth whipping the crank out and having it balanced, and having a lightened flywheel as well?

 

Hope fully that will give me somewhere near my 160 - 170bhp figure.

 

So thats the build sorted, I can start to plan this so the work is done before March '11.

 

The next thing is to find a reliable and reputable company to do the head work. The Puma Racing dude has gone fishing and doesn't want anyones work by the sounds of things, I would't really want to take it to anywhere that started in L and ended in D amd had Motorsport tacked on the end of it, because I've read all sorts of tripe about them on various websites.

 

With that being the case I suppose I need a Peugeout "specialist" but that term scares me somewhat because I can call myself a specialist boat builder (which I am by the way) because I have letters after my name.

 

There is always Skip Brown, and to be fair they might be my nearest people to do the job, but are they going to make me drop my pants because of their heritage, (which I don't question by the way!)

 

Ah the joys of the car toy!

 

Again any suggestions would be good, and please bear in mind I live in the arse end of North Wales (which is a fantastic place to live, unless you rely on public transport in which case it's hell on earth!) so I'd be looking for somewhere in the North West or Midlands if possible, but I'd travel further if there were lots of recommendations for somewhere good. And suggestions on the engine spec as well would be nice.

 

Cheers again!

[Anthony 1,003]

I'd be speaking to Sandy on here if I were you - I'm not sure how much he gets involved with 8v XU's, but certainly his results with TU and 16v XU engines speak for themselves

[welshpug 1,657]

he built Sean McKeowns last engine.

 

don't get hung up on "big valves"

[Bigtimmy 1]

I'd be speaking to Sandy on here if I were you - I'm not sure how much he gets involved with 8v XU's, but certainly his results with TU and 16v XU engines speak for themselves

 

Randomly Sandy used to be my Blakes Paints rep here at the boatyard before he started doing cars, and we often talked more about cars than we did about paint for boats, (which is understandable!)

 

I'll perhaps drop him a mail and see what his thoughts are.

 

Welshy, do you think a BVH isn't a good idea?, does it not add an awful lot in the grand scheme of things? After doing my reading I came to the conclusion that bigger valves would produce more flow for both inlet and exhaust, but then my understanding might be wrong so feel free to set me straight!

[Lan 24 1 Cars]

Welshy, do you think a BVH isn't a good idea?, does it not add an awful lot in the grand scheme of things? After doing my reading I came to the conclusion that bigger valves would produce more flow for both inlet and exhaust, but then my understanding might be wrong so feel free to set me straight!

 

thats the general idea, in practice it doesn't make much difference though (obviously on some engines it might). Your money is certainly spent better elsewhere

 

edit: heres a pretty big thread on the subject http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=31290

Edited September 24, 2010 by Lan

[Bigtimmy 1]

Cheers Lan, thats this evenings reading sorted then, I could really do with one of those daft I pad things as this laptop is steam driven and weighs a ferkin ton when I'm trying to read in bed!!

[Cameron 16]

My understanding of BVH's is they don't give much reward for the amount of money you have to spend. Your money would be put to much better use on something like throttle bodies and management / carbs, cam and exhaust manifold.

 

Ps.. I don't know if you already have an LSD, but if you don't it would definitely be worth setting some money aside for one especially if you are on track a lot.

[Bigtimmy 1]

Ps.. I don't know if you already have an LSD, but if you don't it would definitely be worth setting some money aside for one especially if you are on track a lot.

 

I purchased a Tran X one from Miles earlier in the year and it's great, I'd highly recommend them to anyone without one!

[blessed6383 0]

theres been alot of um and ah about the big valve heads and in my opion (and its just mine and im not an expert) but they did make a difference in my mi16 after having driven it with a standard head but then i had it skimmed and inlet and exhaust ports polished when having this done, i think if your having the whole lot done why not spend the £140 for the valves and say £200-£300 ( and 3 face angles) for the work done is worth it.not sure if the guy still does the valves so may have to get someone else to make them for you

[danpug 1]

As said already, i'd speak to Sandy first before settling on anything.